Human Resources Committee on April 29th, 2024

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

—and allow them to come to that agreement.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

—they say that the contracting actually got worse.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

They are at the table negotiating that agreement. I'm a big believer in that table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Seeback and Mr. Minister.

I'm going to hold everybody to six minutes. Your time is over.

Mr. Long, you have six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair, and good afternoon, colleagues.

Minister, thank you for coming.

I will say that it's shocking but great to see this newfound support for Canadian unions and workers from the Conservative Party. It's shocking, but I'm glad to see it.

I want to talk to you, Minister, about Bill C-58. As you know, we just studied Bill C-58. We did hear a lot of great testimony from witnesses that I think really cut through the smoke, if you will, and brought clarity to a lot of myths, particularly the misconception that unions and workers want to strike, that it's what they want to do and that this legislation would potentially impact that.

We had Sean Strickland in from Canada's Building Trades Unions. He said that anybody who suggests that unions want to strike, that it's what they want to do and that they can't wait to get on the picket line, is “not in touch”. They're not in touch with today's economy and labour realities.

We know that this legislation will actually bring people to the bargaining table. You've always said, through many strikes, that the best deals are done at the bargaining table. We know that these are the best deals that happen for workers. I'm wondering if you can expand just a bit on Bill C-58 and why it is so important, and then, in contrast, how right-to-work legislation, which seems to be favoured by the Leader of the Opposition, could be detrimental to workers.

Thanks, Minister.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

None of this is very easy. I'd come back to B.C. last summer for two weeks—frankly, two weeks too long—where, again, we're talking about the BCMEA, representing the employers, private actors, and we're talking about the longshoremen's union, and again, private actors. We entrust these private actors with our supply chains, particularly out west, from Ontario westward. This had a huge effect on the economy. Every day I would go down and check into the hotel for one more night, thinking it would be the last, but that went on for two weeks.

Just to build on that, we have started a process. I was never happy with just getting a deal. There was something fundamentally wrong with what happened there. Frankly, if you're going to trust people with something as important as the supply chains of this country, then you'd better make sure it's working well. Clearly it wasn't. I wasn't convinced that the fundamental issues behind that dispute had been resolved. We are now starting an industrial inquiry commission. This is something that has been called for. We just announced the commissioners. This is big news. This is going to be big news. They will diligently go about their work over the course of the next year. They will talk to people.

Look, one of the things that you find is that it's not just the idea of banning replacement workers; part of that legislation is also coming to an agreement on what a maintenance of activities agreement would look like. What are the things that have to remain whole? What can we all agree on that have to be maintained? Using replacement workers just adds to the instability. It adds to the insecurity of so many workers. It adds to a feeling of just complete and utter disrespect.

Can you imagine, Mr. Long, going to work one day, and a dispute happens, and then somebody just walks by you and goes about your job?

I get the feeling that you want to ask a follow-up.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Thanks for that. I know you could talk at length about it, as I could too.

I want to also talk about what happened yesterday across the country. I was very thankful that I had a late flight so that I could attend the national day of mourning in Saint John at the Frank and Ella Hatheway Centre. It was an amazing turnout. There were probably 300-plus people there, obviously mainly members of unions. It was a wonderful, heartfelt ceremony.

As you have said in regard to setting the bar for workers' rights, when Canada raises the bar, countries around the world follow. Can you speak to how we have worked and continue to work to improve the rights of workers in Canada?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Where to begin?

I think one of the most important things we have done is to include mental health in occupational health and safety. It sounds like it should have been done a long time ago, but we're doing it.

The day of mourning causes you to reflect on a lot of things. I attended two, one with the CBTU here in Ottawa and also with the Canadian Labour Congress. There are too many people who have died due to work-related incidents in this country. There were about a thousand in 2022, which is the last year that we have full records for.

If you work with the provinces.... Provinces are responsible for roughly 94% of the workforce in this country, while 6% are with the federal government, and we continue to sit down and work with unions and union membership on the ways we can protect the workers of this country in each workplace. It is not for a lack of diligence on anybody's part, to be honest with you, but we continue to have to do better. We continue to have to move each other along.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I'll end with this, Minister.

It was my ninth ceremony. I've been fortunate to be a member of Parliament for nine years now. I will say this: The support and the appreciation from union members towards our government on Bill C-377 and Bill C-525, the anti-scab legislation which we reversed, are deep. Members are very appreciative of what you've done and what we've done as a government.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long. Your time is up.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Minister. Thank you for being here. I would have liked to hear your opening remarks, but you can send it to us in writing.

During the study of Bill C‑58, we had the pleasure of hearing from representatives of the Canada Industrial Relations Board, the CIRB. They told us about their staff. I found that quite troubling, personally. I found that the team was quite weak, not in terms of quality, but in terms of the number of employees.

Have you set aside the necessary resources to make Bill C‑58, which is ambitious and which we hope to be able to improve and pass, enforceable?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, we will give whatever resources it takes. We have a very clear understanding of the new responsibilities and the breadth of work that we will be giving the Canada industrial review board and we understand that the success of a replacement worker ban is dependent on the CIRB's ability to do its job.

I fully expect that in the weeks and months ahead, you will continue to hold our feet to the fire, and I'm happy for that, because the success of this will depend on the CIRB. We are committed to making sure that it has the resources it needs in order to do that job.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I asked you this question, Mr. Minister, because I couldn't find these amounts in either the budget or the estimates, which will be significant. You have regularly and firmly argued in favour of the 18‑month coming‑into‑force period after royal assent. You told us that it was the CIRB that suggested it, but the CIRB didn't confirm it, and the vast majority of the labour movement stakeholders who have come to testify called for the bill to come into force as soon as it receives royal assent.

How can we justify to people who are on strike or locked out during that time that we would have to wait another 18 months after royal assent before this act comes into force?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

It's not for me to justify. I would say that it is for me to listen extremely attentively to those people I just described, those same people we are dependent on for success, those being the CIRB. When they tell us that they need 18 months, I will listen to them. That is what they have told us. They need time. The deputy was just reminding me that their chair, I believe, said in front of this committee that this time was needed.

As I've said before at this committee, it isn't.... I understand that everybody is interested in having this in place as soon as possible—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I know it takes a while, but the CIRB has never confirmed the 18 months.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

If you would just allow me to answer, I would say and reinforce that it is the chair and it is the CIRB that have asked for that 18 months, and I believe them to be experts in the field. We depend on them. We have granted that 18 months and we felt that this is a sufficient amount of time and an appropriate amount of time.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Minister, will you and your government representatives on the committee be open to the idea of significantly reducing that time frame?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I will always listen to the CIRB and I will always listen to our officials, but again—and I can't reinforce this enough—the people who we have all agreed that this legislation's success will depend upon have said to us they need 18 months. Until I hear something different, 18 months is the amount of time that they will get.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Minister, I do want to express our concerns to you.

Let's look at the current situation at the Port of Quebec. There's a lockout, with replacement workers, for more than 18 months. That leads me to ask you two questions.

First, what is the government currently doing to try to resolve this impasse?

My second question has to do with timelines. Let's say that everything goes well, that the anti‑scab bill is passed, that it receives royal assent this fall, and that it comes into force 18 months later. This gives those who are going to be in conflict plenty of time to organize themselves, lock out workers and hire replacements. This gives the runners the chance to deviate from this very important bill while they can. That's the impact of the delay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Give a short answer, please, Mr. O'Regan.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The alternative you allude to would be a system that would be gummed up with caseloads, and officials wouldn't have the time or the resources to be able to render or deliver decisions. That, to me, is not an alternative that I'm willing to entertain. Again, these are the people who know best, and they've said 18 months. I will stay with 18.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

It's Madam Zarrillo for six minutes to conclude.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and the staff who have come here today.

Yesterday was the national day of mourning, which honours workers who have died, have been injured or who fall ill due to their work.

In that backdrop, and as my colleague Rachel Blaney has asked, when will the government stop punishing over 100,000 injured workers who have faced GIS clawbacks and denials in the past year? What actions are you and your department taking to end this injustice to injured workers?

We don't see it in the budget. Other provincial payments are exempted. Will you move to add payments from workers' compensation programs to be exempted or to be added to the exempted list, and when?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I don't believe, Madam Zarrillo, that I am in a position right now to make a significant change to that. I'm willing to entertain it.

I don't know if my deputy minister has anything that she would like to add.

[Sandra Hassan, Deputy Minister of Labour and Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development]

We can look into that and get back to the committee.