Human Resources Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Gazan, you have six minutes. Go ahead.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

My first question is for Mr. Mansfield.

You indicated that you felt that school food programs were a non-partisan issue. Can you expand on that, please?

[Brent Mansfield]

I've heard the idea that we need to make sure that students are fed well in school, and we've heard about the benefits that has. I would hope that transcends any political party.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

I ask that question because it actually, in fact, doesn't.

Do you find it troubling that there are certain members of Parliament who are going to vote against or who have voted against school food programs, and if so, why?

[Brent Mansfield]

I think I finished my statement with this. I hope this would be something all political parties could work towards. A framework is an opportunity to have these conversations around how to make sure this works for all provinces, territories and communities across Canada. This is something I hope all elected officials would see as an important issue to ensure the health and well-being of all children in Canada.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I agree with you. I think it is a non-partisan issue; it should be, especially when we're talking about making sure kids have what they need to be able to learn.

I believe in supporting families, and I believe in ensuring that families, children and all people have what they need to live in dignity. One of the things I've proposed is putting in place a framework for a guaranteed livable basic income with Bill C-223. Would you be supportive of that idea, and if so, why?

[Brent Mansfield]

I think we often conflate issues when we talk about school food programs. There are many students who go to school hungry for many different reasons. I think a national school food program that is universal would benefit all students. There are many reasons why students might not be eating well at school and might not be successful.

I think, separately, we also need to look at how we address food insecurity and why children are food insecure. Policies like a guaranteed annual income and the Canada child benefit, and even conversations around the groceries and essentials benefit, are things that are going to benefit children and the families that will send them to school so that they can also benefit from these programs. They have different goals, and I think they are both very important.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I want to build on that. You said we often conflate issues, and I agree with you, especially when we're talking about school food programs.

As I indicated in the last panel, I was a teacher for a long time, and I used to just put food out for kids to eat. They didn't have to be hungry or indicate they hadn't eaten. I would just have food out, so if they were hungry, they could get food and there was no stigma attached to it. It became a normal part of our classroom.

With something like your program, where everybody's fed whether it's needed for financial reasons or not, why is it important to provide food without qualification?

[Brent Mansfield]

The language in the bill I do really like is about food as a social equalizer. It's also an opportunity for connection. I challenge all of you around this room to think of some of the best memories you have with family and friends. You were probably eating and maybe even drinking and enjoying that together. The opportunity to provide that for children, to model those environments in line with Canada's food guide and to develop a healthy relationship with food is important in this era for all students.

I think it's really important that we look at the opportunities we're providing as part of education. To me, lunch and breakfast and eating are things we can no longer leave out of conversations around what education is for and what role it plays. I think we're missing out on massive opportunities if we're not looking at that.

Not to talk just about my own program, because there are many great programs across Canada, but I wish I could invite you all into the lunchroom at Lord Roberts when we have LunchLAB. If we could do that, you would see that it works. You would see children laughing and talking and serving themselves generously from the salad bar and eating delicious food.

We have a short film that's seven minutes long and was produced for CBC. Search for “LunchLAB” in YouTube and you'll see it. We're not talking about the lowest common denominator of just making sure kids are fed. We're talking about kids who are thriving and who are learning new skills. I think that if you watch it, you will ask, “How would all students not benefit from a program like this?”

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

Mr. MacKeigan, I'm going to ask you a question.

We're talking about food security and also about providing nutritious food for kids in schools. One of the things I've put forward is putting in place a framework for a guaranteed livable basic income. Do you feel that would help the folks you service?

[Shawn MacKeigan]

This might be the easiest question I've ever been asked. Yes, it would.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

Given that we don't have livable income guarantees right now, do you feel that has resulted in an increase in the number of people who require your services?

[Shawn MacKeigan]

Yes, I do.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan. That's your six minutes.

We'll now begin with Mrs. Gray for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today, and thank you for all of the work that you do in your communities.

I'll start with Mr. Nabein, please.

I want to inquire about some of the information you provided to the committee before the meeting. Today, we're talking about the cost of food and how so many families can't afford to feed themselves in Canada.

You outlined the cost of your organization, which gets food to people in need. I see that, between 2019 and 2024, the cost of your meals has consistently been going up. It's also the length of time the carbon tax has been going up, and of course, we have had record high inflation. Over this time, how have the impacts of the high inflation and the carbon tax impacted your organization's ability to provide the meals that you provide to Canadians?

[Carl Nabein]

With the same amount of revenue, we're basically able to provide about half of the meals that we were able to provide before. Even with 48¢, it's still pretty incredible what we can provide. It definitely has been a factor.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

I noted in the information as well that fuel prices per litre have gone up. You outlined in detail some of those numbers.

I see that the fuel prices that you've noted went up 21.5% between January and April of this year alone. We know that the Liberals hiked the carbon tax by 23% on April 1. How has the cost of fuel impacted your costs, how your organization operates and how you serve your community?

[Carl Nabein]

We no longer get product shipped to us for free because of the cost. They are no longer able to do it. We've had to increase our cost of transportation when it's shipped to a remote area in Canada. It definitely has had an impact.

Thankfully, with donations, the money is there, but it doesn't go as far as it did. I guess that's the bottom line.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

Two very damning reports were just released that show how bad the Liberal policies are on high taxes and high spending and how it's affecting people. First, “Salvation Army Spring 2024 Research” said “3 in 4 Canadians continue to face food security challenges” and that more people “have skipped or reduced the size of at least one meal because they couldn't afford groceries.” The Food Banks Canada poverty report stated that almost half of people nationally felt worse off than they did a year ago. It gave an F rating in the poverty measures index, which includes poverty rate, unemployment, and food insecurity. Of course, we know that food bank usage is at a record high after nine years of this government.

Mr. Nabein, based on your experience serving people who can't afford to feed themselves, what do you attribute this to?

[Carl Nabein]

Well, there are a number of factors. I think the pandemic did bring that about. Likewise, the war in Ukraine has caused other issues. There are other world issues. Certainly, our costs have gone up due to the cost of fuel and other things.

I have a big concern with the school feeding program. I think it's a wonderful idea. The big concern I have is that they need food now. I think what's been tabled before.... I think the solution is partnering. Ask people what will work in your local community and have the local, municipal and federal governments work together towards a solution. For instance, for 48¢, we can provide an oatmeal and apple-based breakfast that will provide not just a full belly but also full nutrition for a day. For lunch, we have a whole wheat macaroni that's nutrient-based, again, for 48¢.

Schools are very good at raising money for this. As I say, they're one of our biggest supporters. They know about it, and they care about it. Like that lunch program Brent was speaking to, it would work wonderfully. I think that if we can work together, we can overcome the difficulties, even in this ever-increasing inflationary environment.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

In the spirit and good faith of trying to help improve food security for Canadians, I would like to move the following motion that has been put on notice:

Given that:

a. Food insecurity is a serious and growing issue in Canada;

b. In Toronto alone, the Daily Bread Food Bank served 301,354 clients in February 2024, up from 215,848 in February, 2023 and from 52,522 in 2015;

c. All members of the House should work together to address this issue;

The committee recommend that the House expeditiously pass Bill C-234 unamended in order to exempt farms from the carbon tax and lower the cost of groceries for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

For committee members, Mrs. Gray has used her prerogative to move a motion that is in order. This motion must be dealt with.

I had Mrs. Falk and then Mr. Fragiskatos.

Go ahead, Mrs. Falk, on the motion.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

To committee members, we've heard today the importance of food, especially for children and developing minds. We know that food insecurity is not a new phenomenon, but it has risen drastically within the last nine years. We know that our farmers are the ones paying the carbon tax and, ultimately, that gets passed down to the consumer.

It's imperative that we pass this. It's important that our farmers are able to feed Canadians and also feed the world. I believe that this motion should pass.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Go ahead, Mr. Fragiskatos, on the motion.