Human Resources Committee on March 3rd, 2022

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thanks for that.

Additionally, what is the role of the provinces and territories acting in their respective jurisdictions to improve the quality of care services in Canada?

[Siobhan Vipond]

I'm sorry. Can you just repeat the beginning part?

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

What is the role the provinces in their jurisdictions can play to improve the quality of care services in Canada?

[Siobhan Vipond]

When we talk about it in health care and child care I think those kinds of frameworks are starting to exist across the country. Obviously health care has been long-standing. Child care is in the process of being written and what that looks like. The provinces play a role in that while working with the federal government. We want to see a care commission and why we keep going back to that is so that we can include all of the care work in this commission and have that shared vision so that we can set standards of what this looks like so that it isn't just privately delivered to poor standards.

There has to be a high standard of care and I think that is going to be these partnerships that exist. We think that is the best scenario to put it forward, and we have some great examples of where that can succeed in health care and currently in the child care framework that is being developed.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, and thanks for that answer.

As we know, the federal government provides funding to provinces and territories to help people prepare for and return to work under two labour market transfer agreements: the workforce development agreements and the labour market development agreements. In your opinion, how have the WDA and the LMDA impacted the participation of vulnerable groups in the labour market, and to what extent would funding provided under these initiatives assist the health care sector and other sectors in the care economy?

[Siobhan Vipond]

I think how they do it is that we need to call it.... One of my fellow panellists called it this, that sometimes if we only look backwards we're not planning forward. We need to look at what we need moving forward, whether it's training or whether it's location of workers, and what the incentives are in terms of getting workers matched with jobs. Those programs can be used not just as an investment but also as a planning so that we're not always in crisis mode. We can't always come to these meetings and say, “What are we going to do right now?” We know we need to train people. We know we need to look at matching people with jobs.

Let's have a plan forward and then this means that, whether it's in post-secondary, whether we're talking about immigration, whether we're talking about incentives for people to move to jobs, we can do a better job of pairing. Those programs give us an ability to distribute money and education, but this has to be a forward-thinking thing. When it comes to the care economy, which we have to remember is 20% of workers in this country, we have to look at a commission so that we can have a good plan moving forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you very much, Ms. Vipond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Now we go to Madame Chabot for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also thank all of our witnesses.

My first question is for Ms. Nord from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. This will give her an opportunity to expand on her presentation.

Ms. Nord, I know that you also testified before the Standing Committee on Finance during the pre-budget consultations and that you made a recommendation on the chronic labour shortage, which was to modernize the Temporary Foreign Worker Program. Again today, in your presentation, you said that this was part of the solution.

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you meant by modernizing this program?

[Leah Nord]

I'm happy to speak to the temporary foreign worker program and the need to modernize. We have any number of recommendations. First and foremost, I would go back to some of those previous discussions in the previous panel session here around need for LMIAs and the like.

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce has long advocated for a trusted employers program. There is a nexus model, and there is also a larger accreditation model. For those of you who have been on this committee for a while, you would have seen me speak to this any number of times. Something like a trusted employers program is going to help and assist with those sorts of issues, and I can say a lot more about that model.

We have any number of recommendations around an appeals process and bringing it online, allowing for the ability to pool together temporary foreign workers who are here in Canada who are now unemployed and who other employers can pull from. We are also very and highly supportive of pathways to permanent residency for temporary foreign workers and have supported many of the government's announcements.

What I will say is that there are absolutely issues with the temporary foreign worker program. I would say that, even with its name, there's a stigma that dates back, in some cases for good reason, but what I would hate to see in any temporary foreign worker program.... I appreciate that it's temporary in nature, but one of the benefits is that the program is a job offer and labour market integration from day one. That sets people up for longer-term success.

As much as we have issues and recommendations for modernizing the program, we would also like to see it stay.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I am sorry to interrupt you, but I would like time to ask you another question.

[Leah Nord]

Certainly. I'm sorry.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

With respect to labour shortages in certain sectors, I think hiring temporary foreign workers is a big part of the solution, even if it is not a long-term solution. There are major problems with labour market impact assessments and work permits. That is why I wanted to know your opinion. We can come back to it.

It was mentioned earlier that part of the solution was for manufacturers or small businesses to upgrade their equipment. During the pandemic, we saw the importance of going digital for small businesses, in particular, and of buying local.

Given the labour shortage, shouldn't there be a focus on programs to support SMEs in the digital shift?

My question is for representatives of the Business Development Bank of Canada or the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

[Shannon Glenn, Assistant Vice-President, Government Relations, Business Development Bank of Canada]

What I can do is speak to the program that was just announced. This is the Canada digital adoption program. What I would emphasize is that this program falls in the remit of the Department of Innovation, Science and Economic Development, and they would be the primary spokespeople. That being said, BDC is contributing our efforts to this program. What I can describe is a high-level overview of the program.

In budget 2021, the government announced $4 billion for the digital adoption program to provide funding and support to businesses as well as training and work opportunities for young Canadians.

There are two streams to the program. The first one is with a focus on e-commerce and providing microgrants to help particularly retail companies, for instance, to grow their reach. Then the second stream, the stream where BDC is participating, is focused on boosting your business technology. That stream allows companies to apply for a grant to help them develop a digital adoption plan and then leverage potentially funded work for youth placements. In the context of that second stream, BDC is providing 0% interest loans as part of that stream to help SMEs adopt more complex technologies.

I'll give some specifics around the loans. They are up to $100,000 to implement a digital adoption plan. The application process is 100% online. It's a five-year term with no payment in the first year. No personal assets are taken as collateral and there are no fees. We're very happy to be able to contribute to that. I hope that answers your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We'll go to Ms. Zarrillo, for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to be asking Ms. Vipond about the rising violence and the enforcement of some of the laws around that, and then to visit the care economy commission. However, I'm going to, first, ask Ms. Nord a question.

I appreciate your really inclusive language today. Thank you for that.

Thinking about looking forward and about disaggregated data and how it's collected at the Chamber of Commerce, could you let me know what kind of data is collected? Is disaggregated data collected around gender and race, and what is the fastest growing business type right now?

Those are my questions around looking forward.

[Leah Nord]

At this time we do not collect data from our members, but in the past two weeks, we have entered into an agreement with the Government of Canada and Stats Canada for a business data lab. We'll have the ability, going forward, to look at a lot of this work, particularly from the demand side of the table. It will be forward looking. We're actually in focus groups between now and the end of the year to make sure we are as inclusive as possible, and we are looking at these numbers.

One example I'll give is around labour force numbers. From the data, it looks like women have bounced back and returned to the workforce in full force, but we know, for example, there are issues around productivity and mental health. There are numbers that help us look below those first-level numbers, so that we can dig a little deeper into the stories as well.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm going to Ms. Vipond to talk about the unequal division of care and the overburdened, undervalued and underpaid disproportionate work of women and women of colour.

You spoke about the rising violence. Federally, there are some regulations around the protection of care workers, or at least nurses. Could you talk a bit about what that violence looks like and if enforcement has been happening? Have your members talked about how enforcement is working?

[Siobhan Vipond]

Thank you for bringing up a really important part of when we talk about the care economy and we talk about the importance of long-term investments. When we look at the care economy, we're talking about women workers. You're right. The legislation that came in, in the fall, which was going to assist with this kind of violence, is a welcome addition. This will mean there is a possible criminal path, when people are being harassed.

The study I referred to, in terms of the CFNU, showed that in the last 12 months, 61% of nurses reported experiencing a serious problem at work. It looked at many items, whether it was a manager, a patient or the public. The reality is that it not only makes these jobs unwelcoming, if we're looking at it as a labour force, but also means we have to put in more protections.

We support the steps taken in the fall. There is a lack of access sometimes to these kinds of rights if you are not unionized. When we look at nurses, there's high unionization and that is very important. We will also have more specific numbers for you, because we have partnered and we have a study coming out at the end of this month, which is a survey around harassment. The initial numbers, unfortunately, are reiterating the story we have heard, which is that so many people don't feel safe at work.

It's about legislation like that. It's also about supporting things like C190, the ILO convention, when we look at how harassment and violence should not be allowed at work.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm just going to go back to the care economy commission. I wonder if you wouldn't mind putting a bit of visibility on maybe the top one or two things you're discussing and your members are discussing about what that should look like.

[Siobhan Vipond]

I apologize. Could you just repeat the first part of that?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Regarding the care economy commission you spoke of, I'm just wondering if you could share one or two things the members are speaking about that need to be an integral part of a commission like that.

[Siobhan Vipond]

This care commission, what it looks like and what it does, is really important. The reality is that there's a really great road map for the commission that has been well-established by the International Labour Organization. It did a groundbreaking report called “Care Work and Care Jobs”. The report prioritized the five Rs, which is the framework around what decent care work should look like. It is to recognize, reduce and redistribute unpaid care work; reward paid care work by promoting more and decent work for care workers; and guarantee care workers representation, social dialogue and collective bargaining.

We think the care economy commission could apply this framework in Canada, which is all-encompassing and looking forward, so that we're putting ourselves in a better place to be able to build a care economy that is going to work for everybody.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.