Human Resources Committee on Sept. 24th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Go ahead, Ms. Bruske.

[Bea Bruske]

Thank you for the question.

Unionizing is very difficult for workers. It is fraught with anxiety and fear about what the process will do and the disharmony it may cause when employer interference is part of that equation.

Unfortunately, we've seen many regressive governments across the country—provincial and territorial governments—change how workers can unionize by requiring more than a simple signing of union cards and also requiring an additional step by having a follow-up vote.

When we elect politicians, we ask once for people's voice on that. When we choose to become unionized, it's often a two-step process across this country, where workers have to make the decision to, first, sign a union card, and then, after a certain period of time, to go and vote. That gives the employer many opportunities to run interference and to provide all kinds of inappropriate context and feedback to those workers, creating a lot of fear and division within that workplace while this process is under way. That is what we see time and time again.

What it's going to take to get more workers unionized is good legislative action requiring simply the signature of a union card and having a majority of those workers choose to actually gain a bargaining opportunity with their employer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

I had stopped the clock while the interpretation issue was corrected.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have six minutes, please.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I wanted to ask witness Tristen Wybou my first question.

You introduced the reality of persons with disabilities and how they experience unionized versus non-unionized work environments. I wonder if you wouldn't mind just sharing what benefits led you to adopt the stance, which I see you've openly stated, to not work in a non-union environment after working in one. Can you share why you adopted this stance in the frame of a person with disabilities?

[Tristen Wybou]

Definitely. Thank you for the question, because I believe this is a really important one. Rates of disability in Canada are fairly high, and barriers to employment are even higher. The reasons behind my really needing to have a unionized work site are multifactorial. Some of it is securing, say, in benefits packages, the pieces of compensation that support the additional costs I have in my life due to my health care and the wear and tear that my body and brain take from my work.

Some of it is also that we live in a reality and a society that have a lot of ableism and a lot of misconceptions about people with disabilities, which can create further barriers in my work. Sometimes what is really helpful is being able to have not only my other members there to stand alongside me but also access to really good servicing representatives who are able to come in when I need, to process grievances, to join me in joint labour management and to help me in health and safety. These are the sorts of committees I've sat on, and they've also given us the opportunity to bring in ADRs—alternative dispute resolutions—for both indigenous and non-indigenous employees so that people have multiple ways of resolving issues as they come up, and to advocate for accessibility in the work environment.

These are things that I have found to be just not doable within non-unionized environments. Actually, much of the time when I've engaged in a version of my own joint labour management in non-unionized work sites, what I have found is that we might as well put a union in there and make sure that our protections are actually much more sound legally.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much for that important testimony as we think about the government looking at employment opportunities, as you said, in this ableist society we live in.

I want to thank every witness today who has shared their personal experiences and stories. It's so important to understand that we're talking about people and how safe work environments affect their daily life.

My next question is for Dan Janssen.

You mentioned that we had a lot of discussion in the last two meetings around contract flipping. We know there are issues around contract flipping. Today you introduced the RFP process. I'm just looking at an article in which you talked about what's happening at Pearson Airport in terms of the RFP documents right now and how there is no language about labour standards or Canadian labour rights and protections. Can you just expand on what changes need to be made to the RFP process in federally regulated industries and work sites?

[Dan Janssen]

I believe we can look to the building services act in the province of Ontario. There was a contract flip that happened with the baggage cart-handling team. These workers fell under the building services act and, within the RFP, or the request for proposals procurement process, the laws were all laid out, including the seniority list with the names of employees, so that the new contractor would fully understand their expectations under the Ontario law.

I believe that if we went in that direction, workers would be much better protected, and they would feel comfortable knowing that no matter what happened with the contract retendering process, they would be protected and have their jobs following the contract flip.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much for that.

I'm thinking about the employees at Pearson who are under stress and pressure right now, having no real visibility into what their work is going to look like in the next 28 days. Can you just explain to this committee how having a more transparent RFP process or a process like the one you just outlined would help employees like those who are looking at the next 28 days with bated breath?

[Dan Janssen]

I've done a lot of work at Pearson discussing improvements to our overall safety culture. I can tell you that when workers are stressed out, when they have anxiety, when they don't know their future, that has an impact on the safety culture, because their minds are not on task.

Having a longer procurement process would allow workers to fully understand what's going to happen with their jobs. I believe that aligning it with the group termination provisions of the code—16 weeks' notice—would go a long way to ensuring that workers understand who their new employer might be. That new employer would also have a long time to get to know those workers prior to the contract changing hands officially and the new employer taking over that working group.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's great.

I would just ask witness Bea Bruske if she would also like to make some comments about the RFP and potentially some transparency and notice on RFPs in federally regulated workspaces.

[Bea Bruske]

We 100% support what my colleague Dan has already submitted. We think transparency is critically important. Employees deserve to know what their work life is going to look like. Employees deserve to have their protections continue. The processes should be clear that those protections need to continue going into the future regardless of which successful new company is coming in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo and Ms. Bruske.

We'll now go to Mrs. Falk for five minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

In response to MP Long's misleading remarks, the Conservative leader has been very clear, and publicly on the record, that a Conservative government will not allow, nor permit to be passed, bills like Bill C-377 and Bill C-525. I just want to make sure that's on the record. I think it's been mentioned more than once in this committee what is actually on public record, and there have been attempts to mislead that.

I come from a union household. My father works in the energy sector. I'm from Saskatchewan in western Canada, so I am very familiar with the benefits that being part of a union has, not only for an individual family but also for the community, including younger kids. I know that my dad's local union, for many years, was giving scholarships to kids going into the trades or whatnot. I think that's a very important aspect to also highlight.

Mr. Archer, I want to congratulate you on becoming a grandparent for the first time. I hear it's more fun. I'm not there yet, but I hear it's more fun. Congratulations.

I do want to focus on some of your opening comments regarding the Stellantis battery plant in Windsor. The Prime Minister's offer of $44 billion in taxpayer money to a massively profitable corporation didn't even come with a promise of jobs for Canadian workers, or that it would create those jobs. In my opinion, it's a slap in the face to not only Canadian taxpayers but also Canadian workers. I believe we have the skill and the talent to build Canada, to build the things that Canadians want and that Canadians need. When the news of the 900 foreign workers was breaking, we heard excuses from the government that these replacement workers were needed, as they were contributing a specialized skill set that was needed.

From your perspective, do UA Local 663 members and our Canadian labour force have the skills and the specialized knowledge that would fill these roles and that could fill these roles?

[Scott Archer]

Mrs. Falk, I'd like to first thank you for your congratulations.

We absolutely have the skilled workers to fill those positions. As I said, my local union specifically had roughly 300 people on the out-of-work list. We are known across North America for our welders and for their skill level.

Some of those people at the Stellantis plant were claimed to be specialized workers. I have some photographs on my phone of some of the welds they did. I have an eight-year-old who's been helping me restore an old truck, and his welding skills are far surpassing anything they did. Some of that was an absolute disgrace. I know it set the project back. Our skilled unionized workers have spent a lot of hours cutting out those garbage welds and replacing them with welds that meet the standard of the TSSA.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

It's not efficient, then, if we're having to redo the work that's been done.

[Scott Archer]

That's correct. It's grossly inefficient to have us come back and repair the stuff that was substandard.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Did the government's failure to ensure that the taxpayer-funded jobs were given to Canadians undermine unions?

[Scott Archer]

I don't think things ended up going in the direction they were supposed to, that's for sure. I don't really want to jump to one side or the other politically here, but that job did not go in the direction it was supposed to go. We're all pretty disappointed with the outcome.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

What is the direct impact on Canadian workers when jobs like yours, specialized and skilled, are displaced by foreign workers? What is the direct impact on your fellow employees, your brotherhood?

[Scott Archer]

We have a lot of members who, due to a shortage of work, were unable to make the minimum requirements for hours worked for EI, things like that. People are concerned about car payments and mortgage payments. It's really impacting people at the family level and their financial security when things like that happen.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We now go to Mr. Coteau for five minutes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today. It's been a really good conversation. In fact, the witnesses on the previous occasion were also very valuable. Thank you for being here and speaking on behalf of Canadians, on behalf of organized labour.

I'm a big supporter of unions. When I first got to the Toronto District School Board, in 2003, we were trying to fix a lot of the damage that common-sense Conservatives did in Ontario to the education system. The last time common-sense Conservatives had power in the province, there was a complete dismantling of public education, to such a degree that we saw more than half of the school days gone because of that labour disruption.

We've had members here talk about the leader of the Conservatives' track record on the relationship with organized labour. The fact is that when Bill C-377 and Bill C-525 were brought into the House of Commons by the Conservatives, the leader of the Conservatives voted in favour of those bills. So it's not what he's going to do now; we just need to look at the track record of Conservatives to really understand what may happen in the future.

But here we are today, and the reason we're studying this specific topic is to let parliamentarians know and to let Canadians know that when we put in good legislation to support unions—and I think one witness said, “good legislative action”—it allows us to build a better workforce and increase productivity, but most importantly, it allows for families, for workers, to be protected and to have better-paying jobs. I want to take this opportunity to thank unions for weekends, for holidays, for workplace rules that prevent certain types of injuries, for child labour laws and for pensions. There are so many elements that come from organized labour, and I want to say thank you. I want to be on the record saying thank you for the work that folks do every day to preserve unions.

My big question—and maybe I'll go to you, Mr. Archer—is about what we can do to build on good legislative action in the House of Commons as parliamentarians to better support unions and to make sure, at the end of the day, that we get the legislation right, from all parties, and that we can continue, especially as the economy is changing. We're seeing fewer unionized jobs in certain sectors and a decline in unionized jobs. What can we do to strengthen unions in Canada?

[Scott Archer]

Thank you, and you're welcome.

As I mentioned earlier, for something like that Stellantis job, having agreements in writing that Canadian unionized workers are absolutely to be employed on jobs like that going forward is essential, possibly with a PLA. Things like that are essential, because it seems like a bit of a bait-and-switch on that job, to be honest with you.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Can you give us an example where you saw it happening? Conservatives didn't even agree with that type of investment in Ontario. There was a lot of rhetoric in the House of Commons that said that we shouldn't be using tax dollars to invest in projects like that. As the economy changes, we are making more and more investments into the new economy, and it's important that we get it right.

Have you seen an example in Canada of where that type of investment has gone in a positive way to support workers overall? Do you have an example?