Human Resources Committee on Sept. 24th, 2024

[Bea Bruske]

It is absolutely critical that unions have the resources to properly represent their members. Things like negotiations, member education, providing those scholarships that one of your colleagues spoke about, those are all things that are funded by union dues. Union officials are democratically elected. Their members have access to all financial information; that is within their purview to review. There are financial committees that review how unions spend their money.

It is critically important for unions to do the work that their members expect of them. We're obligated under provincial and federal legislation in terms of how we represent our members to actually have the resources to do the work that we need to do.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

In light of what you said, I know where you're going with it, but I think it's still important for us to hear this. What is your view with respect to some U.S. states where so-called right-to-work laws are in place that would starve unions of membership dues?

[Bea Bruske]

We know that “right to work” means the right to work for less. The reality is that when you do not have the resources to file those grievances, to go to arbitration on a case, to properly negotiate, to get member input and to properly represent your members, you cannot fully do the job of a union. Members having the ability to be free riders, to opt out of paying dues that are, quite frankly, income tax-deductible, is a huge problem in terms of our ability to do our work and to properly build a middle class.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Are you familiar with the Conservative Party's official policy document and what it says about right to work?

[Bea Bruske]

I am familiar with the policy document. I am familiar that on page 6, and I think page 7, it indicates that the party stands for the opportunity for people to make the decision as to whether or not they want to contribute to their union.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I know Conservative colleagues are anxious to say that Mr. Poilievre has said he would not pursue right-to-work legislation if his party formed government and he became prime minister. However, if that were sincere, then that document, which was updated as recently as 2023, would have been changed. He would have ensured their official policy document made it clear that the Conservative Party of Canada does not believe in right-to-work laws. However, it's quite the contrary, isn't it? Because as you said, Ms. Bruske, on page 6—

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

There's a point of order.

Clearly state your point of order.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The member knows very clearly that the Conservative leader cannot alter a policy document and—

[An hon. member]

That is not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Just a moment.

That is not a point of order, Mr. Seeback.

Mrs. Gray, do you have a point of order? Clearly state it.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to remind the committee of the purpose of this study. I will read it. It refers to the “compensation disparities between unionized and non-unionized workers in Canada”. Stay on topic. It's union wages and workers being out of work.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

That's a decision I will make as chair. I give quite a bit of latitude to all members when they have their time. I ask all members to respect that.

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

It is a sensitive matter, as we've seen, for Conservative colleagues. However, I'm thrilled Mrs. Gray raised her point of order, because the point about disparities is perfectly on point.

Ms. Bruske, how do right-to-work laws impact pay, ultimately? My understanding is that, if unions are starved of membership dues, they lack the financial resources to carry out, among other things, collective bargaining, which is so central to ensuring good pay for workers.

Am I right in saying that? Is there an issue of disparity with respect to right-to-work laws? Is it relevant?

[Bea Bruske]

It's 100% relevant, because the reality is that, in states that have right-to-work laws, the average wage of workers is considerably less than that of their unionized, fully functioning counterparts in legislative areas that do not have right-to-work laws.

We can provide you with reams of data to support that argument.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Your time is up.

Mrs. Gray has the floor for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

I have a couple of questions for Mr. Archer that are directly related to the topic of the study here today.

You advocated previously calling for the Line 5 pipeline to remain in operation. You called on the Prime Minister to reach out to the American government on behalf of “citizens of Canada, skilled tradespeople, and the families who depend upon the oil and gas industry to provide their livelihood and sustain their quality of life”. In your opening statement today, you talked about a recent point in time when 300 of your members were on an out-of-work list.

My first question for you is this: When it comes to the oil and gas industry, have the choices of the current Liberal government—whether it be killing pipelines like energy east and northern gateway, or restricting the ability to get oil and gas projects approved through unconstitutional red tape like Bill C-69—negatively impacted those tradespeople and workers and their families, who rely on the oil and gas industry for their livelihoods?

[Scott Archer]

As you're well aware, the oil industry in this country is currently in quite a slump. I think, honestly, that there needs to be some attention directed to reviving it instead of directing things towards electric vehicles, wind farms and things of that nature, which have proven to be ineffective.

I think the focus should be more on converting existing facilities to hydrogen use and production. Honestly, that is a more realistic path forward for the future. I think that would be money better spent. It would preserve existing Canadian jobs and create some new ones, as well.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you for that.

I want to ask you something on a similar topic.

We know the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources has a just transition plan. From September 20, 2022, it was estimated that this plan would lead to the elimination of 2.7 million jobs in sectors like agriculture, energy, manufacturing, construction and transportation. That's right in the government's own document. I've heard a lot of uncertainty around this, which is incredibly stressful for workers.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Scott Archer]

It feels like we've had everything coming at us in the last few years, as you mentioned, with Line 5 and the oil and gas industry in general, and we just seem to be taking hits over and over again, so it's pretty stressful for all of us in the industry. I know I lose a lot of sleep over it. My wife is seated in the gallery behind us here, so you could probably get her opinion on how much sleep I lose.

It's just something that I wish we could move forward with more productively. There are a lot of opportunities that I feel are not being exploited as they should be. This obviously is the greatest country in the world to live in, and we have so much to offer, so I would just like to push some of our strengths more than I currently feel they are being pushed.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate that, and I appreciate the personal aspect as well, because we know that these types of stresses are really hard on families, so thank you very much for sharing that.

The other thing I wanted to ask you on this is about how governments will talk about re-skilling workers. In particular, with this just transition plan, this document talks about re-skilling to other positions, such as janitor as an example, which is an important job and a very respectable job, but may or may not have the same compensation, whether it's union wages or benefits.

I'm wondering if you have seen, with some of this re-skilling, when different positions have been lost and there's a re-skilling of a position, whether it's always comparable. Is it unionized? Is it the same pay? Does it have the same benefits? Are there concerns that this really isn't what might be happening?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mrs. Gray's time has gone well over, so you may be able to answer that on another question.

We'll now move to Mr. Van Bynen for five minutes.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I think I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Collectively you have five minutes.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Right.

My wife was born in Windsor. She had to endure some of the very difficult times when the auto industry was failing, and her family is still there now. They say that Windsor is alive and well and bustling as a result of these investments, so I think we need to put this into a proper perspective, that things are moving along well for Windsor as a result of the government's decision to support the auto industry and the shift in the auto industry.

However, that's not my question.

We did a study here in this committee that talked about artificial intelligence and its impact on the workforce, and it had a number of significant recommendations. With the emerging trends with artificial intelligence, with gig work and remote work, how do you feel that will impact unionization rates, as well as compensation? What do you see would be the role of the union going forward as technology has its impact on the industry?

That question is for Ms. Bruske.