Evidence of meeting #124 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bea Bruske  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Dan Janssen  General Chairperson, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers - District 140
Scott Archer  Business Agent, UA Local 663
Tristen Wybou  Executive Vice-President, British Columbia General Employees' Union
Vanessa Preston  Committee Researcher

12:50 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Bea Bruske

That union certainly is taking legal action, asserting exactly what you've just identified. We strongly believe, as I indicated earlier.... In this particular case, this employer advocated for an arbitrated settlement on day one of negotiations. That is troublesome to us. We want employers to come to the bargaining table, to be respectful of the process and to fully engage in the process of getting a fair deal.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Mr. Archer, I actually look at data on unionization rates. Unionization rates in forestry, in oil and gas, and in mining have really gone down in the last little while. You talked about some of the challenges with the environment right now. Would you say that some of the government decisions with respect to oil and gas and mining are leading to union job losses in those sectors?

12:50 p.m.

Business Agent, UA Local 663

Scott Archer

You could definitely interpret stats that way. As I mentioned earlier, just based on our safety record.... In my jurisdiction, we have a 98% union market share. That is a huge part of why our safety record is absolutely impeccable. It's due to our higher level of training, our higher level of skill and everyone being completely invested. I think that alone is worth a look for union labour. Everyone gets home safe at the end of the day, and you get a superior product. I think that's an awfully strong selling point.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Mr. Seeback.

Mr. Long, you have five minutes.

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, thank you to our witnesses. This is a long session for you.

Ms. Bruske and witness Wybou, I just want to get your opinion on the decline of union membership. Stats Canada came out with a report in 2022, which basically says that over 40 years, from 1981 to 2022, union membership declined from 37.6% to 28.7%.

We'll start with you, Ms. Bruske. Can you comment on what might have contributed to that decline in union membership? Also, how has that decline in membership correlated with trends in earnings?

12:50 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Bea Bruske

We can certainly see that, in many instances, larger workplaces that used to be unionized are not as large as they used to be, for one instance, and they're not as concentrated as they used to be. When you have a plant with 400 to 600 people working in one area, organizing one plant with a concentrated mass of employees is relatively simple, compared to the kind of unionization we have now, where we're trying to organize at different places at the same time, where workers are spread out and where there is not necessarily the same commonality of interest in terms of geographic location. That is one particular challenge.

I spoke earlier today, as well, about the different labour legislation and how that impacts unionization rates. Trying to organize a multi-tiered process to getting recognition and having bargaining rights is much more complicated than it has been in the past. That is egregious, and that's something that we work on with our provincial and territorial partners.

The decision to make application to a union is not an easy decision. It's a kitchen table conversation that you have with your family, because there is a lot that goes into that kind of decision. If my employer finds out that I'm trying to get unionized, am I going to lose my job before I can actually have union protection? Those are very real concerns that workers have.

Lastly, I would say that there is a changing demographic. Workers aren't staying at their places of employment for very long. It's very common to have workers working two or three different jobs at one time. The commitment to staying with one employer isn't as great because they don't see a future with that particular employer, in terms of actually building up into a middle-class job.

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you for that.

Witness Wybou, do you have anything you want to add to that about what you've seen?

12:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, British Columbia General Employees' Union

Tristen Wybou

I will add to and emphasize what witness Bruske has said here.

One thing in particular that I've found in my own experience, too, is that in the evolving work landscape, especially since the COVID-19 pandemic, we do see people living in various areas and doing remote work. Trying to organize within the virtual setting is quite difficult, because people are becoming increasingly siloed. I think some of that siloing is happening through cultural and societal shifts in general, which is making workers feel much more disconnected.

Also, the hostility of retaliation and the consequences of retaliation only get higher in the face of a housing crisis, collapsing health care and lower resources within your communities. If you're looking at needing to cover leases, mortgages, children and whatever it might be, that fear of retaliation is really high, and the need for worker solidarity is n-fold beyond it. The more we are siloed and the more we worry about that, the harder it is to have those kitchen table conversations where people do feel supported and where they have the capacity to go ahead with a card check.

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you.

I have no more questions.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Thank you, Mr. Wybou, for your good testimony to the committee.

That concludes the questioning round with the witnesses. You can leave at your will.

I need clarification on two items and the direction of committee members. Does the committee wish to accept the brief submitted by Starlight Investments? This is a witness who was, I'll say, controversial. The request was to provide a written brief. The written brief—and I'll ask the analyst to speak—came in after the deadline that the committee had set.

I'll ask the analyst to speak briefly to that.

Vanessa Preston Committee Researcher

I'll just clarify that the brief from Starlight was received after the deadline that the committee had set to receive briefs as part of the investments in housing study, approximately a month after the fact. I'm just seeking clarification from the committee if they would like to include that brief as part of the evidence for the report.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Ms. Zarrillo.

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know that you know that I feel strongly about the fact that this witness was allowed to get away with twice refusing to appear before this committee. I also know that the Liberals and the Conservatives teamed up to give this person a free pass and opened the opportunity for them to send a brief.

I think we've seen on CBC that they've been covering the business practices of Starlight Investments. We've certainly seen the displacement and the exploitation of tenants. We're now in a situation where tenants are having to unionize against their landlords. I think that if the Starlight Investments CEO has something to say, we certainly would like to hear from him in this committee in a forum where we can ask him questions.

Equity is in question here. I think there is a class war going on right now between landlords and their tenants. Certainly, I understand why the Liberals and the Conservatives would team up to try to protect these corporate landlords. As an NDP member, I will not accept a submitted submission written by someone who twice refused to attend this parliamentary committee, right in the face of Canadians who are right now living in cars because of the practices of these types of landlords.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor.

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

I don't think we should accept this brief, which was submitted well after the deadline. That shows scant regard for our work. We can be flexible when the deadline is missed by a few days, but in this case, it's inopportune. When there's a rule, you have to stick to it.

I won't comment further.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Just to be clear, the deadline was June 21, and the brief was submitted on June 29. It was seven days.

I'm directed by the unanimous or majority decision of the committee. I've heard two speak against accepting it, so I'm taking it that everybody else is agreeable to accepting the brief. Based on that, the majority of the committee chooses to accept the brief to be included in the report.

Ms. Zarrillo.

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

I'd like a recorded vote, please.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Okay. That's no problem. I would need somebody to move a motion to accept the brief.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

It doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. We don't need to vote.

Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

I'll move a motion to not accept the brief.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Okay, we have a motion—

An hon. member

[Inaudible—Editor]

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Yes, it is too late.

Committee members, thank you. I haven't arrived at a decision on this. I will revisit it.

With that, we have reached the conclusion of the committee's time. The committee is adjourned.