Evidence of meeting #127 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was accessibility.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay. I'll go to March of Dimes.
I have a similar question, actually, regarding the people you serve and also the services you offer. Could you perhaps speak to how the cost of living crisis has been affecting those you serve and the operation of your budgets?
National Director, External Affairs, March of Dimes Canada
Yes. The cost of living is impacting everyone. I'm sure everybody in this meeting is experiencing the impact of that.
Speaking to the needs of our clients, our service users—we've switched from “clients” to “service users”, so I'm making that shift in my head too—they're talking a lot about the cost of living. In the context of the Canada disability benefit, we did four focus groups over the summer as part of our regulations development submission. We heard a lot about the cost of living and about how the Canada disability benefit is just so disappointingly low.
You know, with only an additional maximum of $200 a month and bringing—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Mrs. Gray, your time has concluded. You can follow up with them.
To conclude, I have Mr. Collins for five minutes.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to the witnesses. It's MP Chad Collins from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek. I have brown hair. I'm wearing a blue suit and a blue tie today.
Ms. Kurdi, I'll start with you.
Ms. Cadieux, the chief accessibility officer, appeared as a witness at the committee and provided testimony. She said something that struck me as very important, so I copied her statement here. She said, “I have noted that, while there is a lot of willingness and good intentions, many still aren't sure what accessibility really means and why it matters.” Then she went on to say that there needs to be more proactive communication and education around the importance of accessibility.
Can I get your comments on that statement? What role can the federal government play in dealing with that whole issue of communicating and educating both the corporate sector—and I know you have extensive experience, from what you relayed to us in your opening statement—and what can we do for other levels of government, including our own, on that issue?
Accessibility Educator and Policy Strategist, Level Playing Field Incorporated
Well, I think, as David Lepofsky said earlier this week, that there are many levers that you have. There are some things that are under the jurisdiction of this act that you could be doing and there are other ways that you could be working with other parts of the federal government and other programs you have.
The lack of alignment between the building code and the Canadian charter and the human rights code is one of the biggest problems we see for built environment and design. Why is it a human right? The Canadian charter says disabled people are equal citizens, and the human rights code says buildings and spaces shall not discriminate against them, so why are we as accessibility consultants warning people that following the building code is not getting them to that level and that there's a liability gap?
If it's required in those higher pieces of legislation, the building code should say that too, and it's part of the reason we hear so much push-back or concern, such as “Where does it say in the building code that we have to do that? Why is it in the human rights code but not in the building code?”
Again, as I said, one thing the government could do.... They provide funding to our educational institutions for post-secondary training. Of course, training the designers is a key part of understanding what accessibility looks like. People often mistakenly say, “Accessibility is ugly, and it's hard, and it's expensive,” but that's because they're doing it too late and they haven't spent time, especially during their developmental years, thinking about how amazing accessibility can be. We're not accessing their skills.
Also, one point David Lepofsky made was about attaching requirements so that no federal money is spent on creating new barriers. Whether that's putting requirements in our procurement policies while we wait for the building code to finally get up to speed, how we use accessibility consultants or making sure accessibility requirements are done further upstream, it has to be there right from the start, which is what you say in the legislation: “accessibility from the start”. If we don't do those things, we're missing major parts of the answers that, unfortunately, will feed back into the training and rethinking.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thanks. I like the fact that you mentioned Mr. Lepofsky's answer to that question: Although he wasn't asked that question, he offered that answer up on his own. He talked about attaching some strong strings to provincial funding when we have provincial partners.
Someone on the panel here today talked about the deplorable rates that people with disabilities face in the province of Ontario. ODSP rates haven't changed in many years, if at all. Mr. Lepofsky talked about how, if the province wants subway dollars and it's going to build a subway with all kinds of barriers, then you need to start attaching some strong strings to that funding and some requirements to increase accessibility.
Can I get your thoughts on his suggestion in that regard?
Accessibility Educator and Policy Strategist, Level Playing Field Incorporated
Thank you. Yes, absolutely—I agree 100%. I worked on a lot of those projects and saw how....
It's like when I say , “How hard is it to shift from inaccessible design to accessible design? Well, it depends on when you start.” If you start at the beginning—with attachments to funding, for example—then you're aiming in the right direction and the amount of change you have to make is of a very small degree. However, if you already let loose the arrow and have done all your planning, budgeting and space planning, and then say, “Now we want to make it accessible,” how hard is it going to be to change the trajectory of that arrow? How much money are you going to have to throw at it?
The accessible housing crisis is one part, but our urban environments, including transit, are getting a lot of money as well. Without those strings attached and, again, if it's not in the building code, we get push-back—“Where does it say we have to do it?” We don't see the consequences for people who are not doing it, so those are the loopholes we need to address.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you.
That concludes this round. We'll suspend for two minutes while we set up for the next panel.
Again, thank you, witnesses, for taking the time to appear before the committee and giving your comments and testimony on this very important study. You can leave.
We'll suspend for four minutes while we transition to the next panel.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
I call the meeting back to order.
Committee members, we will resume the second and final hour of this particular study by welcoming our new witnesses.
From DeafBlind Ontario Services, we have Karen Madho, who is appearing by video conference. We also have Karen Moores from Easter Seals Canada, who is also appearing by video conference.
I have to advise the committee, according to the rules of the chamber, that one witness who was provided late, Diane Bergeron with CNIB, did not clear the sound test for translation, so we'll just have two witnesses.
We will begin with Ms. Madho for five minutes, please.
Karen Madho Manager of Public Relations, DeafBlind Ontario Services
Thank you.
My name is Karen Madho. I'm with DeafBlind Ontario Services. I want to express my thanks to you for inviting me here today to share our perspective.
I want to start by mentioning that the 2022 Canadian survey on disability data from Statistics Canada confirms that just over 2% of Canadians 15 years of age and older are deaf-blind. That's just over 600,000 people.
Of those who are deaf-blind, 52%, or just over 300,000 people, are 65 years and older. This part of the population that experiences both vision and hearing loss—dual sensory loss—are seniors who are experiencing this hearing and vision loss as part of the aging process.
Of the estimated 1.5%—or 120,000—of Canadians who live with developmental disabilities, as per the Canadian survey on disability data, approximately 0.2%, or 240, are deaf, hard of hearing or use non-traditional forms of communication.
DeafBlind Ontario Services supports people who are deaf-blind, as well as those living with a developmental disability who are deaf or hard of hearing or who use non-traditional forms of communication. Our specialized services are customized to each person's unique needs, methods of communication and goals to live their best life. Our reach extends into remote communities and urban centres across the province of Ontario, with supported living homes and community services. We draw on our 35 years of experience, as well as evidence-based practices, to offer the highest quality of services to the people we support.
Deaf-blindness is a combination of both hearing and vision loss that is unique to each person. It impacts their ability to access information, their communication and their mobility. For someone to be considered legally blind, their visual acuity would be 20 over 200 in both eyes. For someone who is legally deaf, they may have little or no functioning hearing.
Our team of professionals whom we employ on the front lines assists with communication. Among them are intervenors, who are specially trained professionals that provide visual and auditory information to people who are deaf-blind to help them have more of a sense of social connectedness in their lives.
People that we support who live with developmental disabilities and are deaf, hard of hearing or use non-traditional forms of communication receive supports from direct support professionals. They support and empower that person to learn concepts and skills, gather information, and develop communication and language.
For the people we support, living their best life can mean many different things. With an intervenor or a direct support professional, it's about receiving information about the environment. It's about receiving the contextual information and understanding what's around them. If someone is walking down the street with their communication support, is it a busy street? What are those sounds that they're picking up from some residual hearing? Maybe it's music from a nearby restaurant. There are kids running down the street laughing as they pass by.
All of those contextual pieces are what an intervenor, for example, would be sharing with a person who's deaf-blind.
For example, to one person we support, it's all about independence. It means developing the skills she needs to travel on a bus in her community. This is something she's identified as a goal. That would mean getting a bus pass, working together with her intervenor to get that together. It's planning trips, taking new practice rides to learn the routes and searching up local attractions with her intervenor so that she can be a bit more independent.
With varying degrees of sensory loss, each person would use their own unique and individual way to communicate. They may use one or more methods of communication.
We have some recommendations we want to share on how to promote inclusion. For us, it really means recognizing deaf-blindness as a distinct disability, legally and in policies.
Include deaf-blindness in Statistics Canada surveys, so that data could be collected and could be used for policies and funding decisions.
Offer intervenor services across Canada. No matter where you live, you shouldn't be restricted in having these really valuable services.
Include people with lived experience in all aspects of society, including planning, policies and funding. That's critical, and it would mean that you are also accommodating their communication needs. That's very important,
Include seniors with dual sensory loss in any pan-Canadian policy framework so that they can participate in their communities as fully as possible.
Ensure that all accessible formats are available for the people we support. That would mean ensuring that the person can access information in any method of communication that they require, of course with the support of a specially trained intervenor or direct support professional.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you; you're ahead of time.
Ms. Moores, you have the floor for five minutes, please.
Karen Moores Consultant, Easter Seals Canada
Thank you.
Good morning to the chair and to all committee members.
My name is Karen Moores. I'm a blonde woman. I'm 42. I'm appearing virtually. There's a bookcase with some family photos, books and magazines behind me.
Today I represent my colleagues at Easter Seals Canada. Our community includes 150,000 Canadians living with a disability in all parts of Canada.
I would just like to note that we're a truly national family as a charity. I work remotely and live in St. John's in Newfoundland and Labrador, and many of my colleagues in different parts of the organization are around the country, which is one of the beautiful parts of Easter Seals.
We are a charity that turned 100 two years ago. The centennial for Easter Seals was in 2022. For 102 years, Easter Seals Canada has very proudly provided programs and services that improve accessibility and inclusion and improve the quality of life for people with disabilities. Our organization provides programs and services for all disabilities for all ages, with many programs anywhere in Canada, an example being the Access 2 card program. Anyone in Canada can get an Access 2 card.
For the record, I would like to note that Easter Sales Canada is a federated model. While I represent our national organization today before your committee, we have nationwide in various Canadian communities an incredible network of provincial, and one territorial, Easter Seals organizations that do their own exceptional work as their own independent entities but are still part of the Easter Seals family.
Our provincial members—and a shout-out to them today—are the leaders of the exceptional camp program that you might hear about in your home constituencies. This camp program is just one example of a barrier-free Canada in action. It's accessible camping and recreation where memories are made, leadership skills are gained, and sports, healthy living and leisure join together. I encourage everyone here today to take the time to learn about the success story that is the Easter Seals Canada camp program. If there's an Easter Seals camp near you, I suggest that you visit.
As your committee explores what a barrier-free Canada may look like by 2040, I want to share today that we at Easter Seals believe that a barrier-free country involves short-term changes. We're very much of the mindset of what we can do right now and what we can change today. To echo another witness, there never will be perfection; we can strive for it, but let's make some incremental change today. Alongside those intergenerational investments for the longer term, what can we all look back at in 20, 30 or 40 years that we've put in motion today to change?
We would like to echo my colleague Amanda at March of Dimes. We agree with her comments on the Canada disability benefit and echo them. I won't touch on that. I think it's been well said by other witnesses; however, Easter Seals Canada of course supports that position.
I will today touch on employment. We talk a lot about employment at Easter Seals Canada. In a world of changing job markets, skill development needs and technology, and as artificial intelligence really changes our world, we need to ensure that we as a nation are world leaders and innovators in how we make our job market truly inclusive. That's for every person and for every disability.
Employment accessibility also means equalizing opportunities for persons in rural and remote parts of Canada just as much as in urban Canada.
As I said, I'm from St. John's. I'm particularly passionate in making sure that every part of our country has equal access to a truly inclusive country. While we've made progress, I think that in our changing world, we all need to do more to ensure that our economy is truly inclusive for workforces in every industry and community Canada-wide, at boardroom tables, in our skilled trades, in our tech sector and in our emerging and traditional economies. The 6.2 million Canadians living with a disability are under-represented in our economy, and we all need to change this.
The second point I'll touch on is transportation.
When we imagine a barrier-free Canada, particularly for employment and jobs, we know that enhanced, accessible and affordable transportation must be a part of this. The ability to travel for work safely and with dignity must be a part of the push to achieve a barrier-free country and a truly inclusive economy.
We want to be a part of those innovative policy solutions, and I believe we already are, but we want safe, accessible, affordable transportation and transit for persons with disabilities and their families, and again, in rural and remote areas, on airlines, on ferries and on rail.
Consultant, Easter Seals Canada
Thank you to the committee. I welcome your questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you.
We'll begin with Mr. Aitchison for six minutes, including the answers.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to start with Ms. Madho. I want you to talk to us a bit about some of the barriers that persons with disabilities face, particularly relating to housing and access to housing.
We understand that we're in a crisis in this country. Do persons with disabilities face greater challenges than the general population at accessing housing?
Manager of Public Relations, DeafBlind Ontario Services
Thank you for your question.
I think they definitely do. I don't have any numbers to support that. I know that in a previous session, we talked about OASIS numbers, and certainly they're very distressing.
At DeafBlind Ontario Services, we offer supported living opportunities, and I would say it is quite expensive to make sure that each of those locations that we operate is accessible in the sense that they are safe. They are places where someone, who may have more than one disability in addition to being deaf-blind, would be able to move around, be independent, and be able to engage safely in daily living tasks that you or I may take for granted, and usually, of course, with the support of either an intervenor or a direct support professional.
You may be someone living in one of our locations. You look at adding in those accessibility pieces when you're renovating a home or purchasing it, even if they're not needed at that point in time. Certainly, they can be expensive. While you don't need railings on the side of the walls to help guide you down the hallway, maybe in about five years' time, as part of the aging process, you really will need those to help you, so why would you look at adding in that navigation tool later rather than ahead of time?
Definitely, I think it's really important to look at that planning piece and make sure that any housing is a safe place where someone can live as independently and as safely as possible and look forward to aging in place so that they are not forced to live in other alternative housing that maybe doesn't have the accessibility pieces in place that they need to be safe and to live a good quality of life, but also where they have the supports they need, which in the case of our organization means the support of an intervenor or a direct support professional.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Thank you for that.
I'd like to move to Ms. Moores now and ask you a similar question, not specifically about housing, but more generally about the cost of living.
For example, the cost of food has gone up dramatically. Are persons with disabilities more significantly impacted by the cost of living crisis in this country, like the cost of food, for example?