Evidence of meeting #129 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
It's just waiting behind red tape and bureaucracy.
President, Lodestar Structures Incorporated
It is what's stunting our growth, yes.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Chair, I would like to pass my remaining time to MP Aitchison, if possible.
Thank you.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Thank you, Mrs. Falk.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Searles' comments were actually a perfect segue to what I'd like to do next. I'd like to move a motion that's on notice, and that motion reads:
That, with respect to her recent appointment as President and CEO of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) on June 14, 2024, the committee hold one meeting for two hours with the following witness from the CMHC:
Coleen Volk, President and CEO of CMHC.
October 10th, 2024 / 11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
The clerk has advised me that the motion had proper notice.
Mr. Aitchison has moved a motion to the floor.
Is there discussion?
I have Mr. Fragiskatos.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
We have no problem with that. That's quite reasonable. I would just say, though, that the committee has already agreed to a program in terms of focus, and we don't want to have CMHC come before we've had the chance to look at the other issues that we've already agreed to study. I wouldn't give it priority is what I'm saying.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The motion doesn't say that it takes priority over anything else. It's just that it goes with what we're discussing. We know that we have a planning meeting coming up, so it goes in that discussion. We know that we have other business that we've agreed to, like ministers coming and all of that, but this would then be one of those studies that we would look at afterwards.
That's just for clarification. Thank you.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
I was going to say the same thing that Mrs. Gray said, but maybe I'll just read the motion again to point out that it didn't actually prioritize this over anything else. I'm not sure sure why Mr. Fragiskatos thought that. Mrs. Gray said it very eloquently.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Seeing no further discussion, we'll have a recorded vote on the motion moved by Mr. Aitchison.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Order, members. Hold your enthusiasm.
Just for the benefit of the witnesses, it was within the prerogative of Mr. Aitchison to do that motion, so we'll return.
I'm going to conclude, as we go on, with Mr. Collins, Madame Chabot and Ms. Zarrillo.
Mr. Collins, you have five minutes.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to the witnesses.
Mr. Royer, I'll start with you. You talked, in your opening, about how the off-site concept requires huge capital investment. You talked about the cost of your first plant, and your second plant in Ontario seems to be a bit more ambitious with a larger price tag.
I compare the situation we're dealing with, the housing crisis, to what we're doing on the environment. We have climate crisis, and all levels of government have looked to invest in changing the way the automotive industry builds their vehicles and the types of vehicles that they build. We've made huge investments, in partnership with our private partners, to make that shift.
I don't want to diminish or downplay the investments that we've made in the area of encouraging industrialization in the housing sector. There have been recipients in my riding of some companies. One is Faro Industries. We provided, I think, just over $3 million to assist with the capital requirements that they have as well as with new employment, and BECC is a local provider that has received resources as well, in the Ancaster area, from FedDev Ontario.
I highlight those to advise and to advertise that it's already happening, but I think it has to happen on a greater scale. When I compare the automotive industry investments with the housing crisis and the investments we're making there, they pale in comparison.
Can you relay to the committee—because this meeting is all about driving recommendations and looking to change the way we do business—what recommendations you have for the government as it relates to making investments in those strategic areas in terms of whether it's plant operations or whether it's making the plants that you currently have larger than they are to increase capacity?
What recommendations do you have in that regard?
Chief Executive Officer, Massive Canada Building Systems Incorporated
One of the recommendations that we've talked about internally in my company, and also with colleagues, is that most of the grant programs are reimbursements. It relies on the private sector to make the expense, and then you get reimbursed. It's always a portion of the investment that you've made that gets reimbursed until you make further investments.
For young companies with ideas that are really disturbing the industry in terms of the advancement, having the government provide more funds up front and not to wait for—
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
From a grant perspective, not a loan, is what you're saying.
Chief Executive Officer, Massive Canada Building Systems Incorporated
From a grant or a loan, it would not really matter. However, to provide more money up front would allow these companies to do demonstration projects or would allow them to do proof of concept. That is the part that is the most difficult for private investors of venture capital to consider. You can only do so much with a business plan until you have a unit that people can walk in and can see what's happened.
Secondly, I think the amounts that are required for modular manufacturing are of a scale, as you pointed out, that is very large. For the $10 million from the B.C. government that we received, we're highly appreciative of that. We think it was courageous for them to provide this under the manufacturing jobs fund, but we need more than that. My colleagues in the industry would agree that the investments need to be bigger than that.
Liberal
Chad Collins Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I'll switch gears.
Once you have those plants, you need some business certainty in terms of people purchasing those units. One thing the national housing strategy has done is that it has certainly delivered in that regard, at least to many suppliers in southern Ontario, where I'm from.
It relates to the rapid housing initiative, of course, which has flowed through municipalities and non-profits. Then they've turned to your sector to purchase units and dip their toes in the water in the modular area.
I think the affordable housing fund has done that as well. However, there's no certainty with a change in government, which happens once in a while. The national housing strategy may or may not be there. Of course, our government has shown a commitment to providing those programs on an annual basis.
How important are they, from a business certainty perspective and a revenue perspective, maybe not necessarily just to your business but to the industry as a whole, in order to ensure that you're going to be able to turn the lights on next week because people are purchasing those modular units?
Chief Executive Officer, Massive Canada Building Systems Incorporated
I don't think that in the current climate you need to worry about the pipeline of projects. We have a very strong pipeline of projects. We do have a first demonstration project that is funded.
One thing I heard yesterday as well was that the rapid housing initiative is not accepting applications anymore. We would welcome it if it were to reopen to applications. Not to repeat myself, but the amounts are something that need to be looked into as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Collins.
Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Royer, I'd like to talk about workers. The committee heard from an FTQ‑Construction representative I had invited to appear. You know that in Quebec, there are rules, boards and so on. You're advocating for innovative construction, and workers have really stressed how important it is to help the workforce adapt to innovation by upgrading people's skills. So workers need training.
Workers are part of the solution. They're often cast aside. New plans and innovative practices are brought in and then workers are asked to carry out the work, but there's no coordination. It seems to me that the goal should not be to reduce labour costs, but rather to upgrade workers' skills so they can fully contribute to that growth.
Is that the kind of value you bring in terms of construction innovation and workers' role in it?
Chief Executive Officer, Massive Canada Building Systems Incorporated
I don't know what's happening in Quebec, but one problem is that all the provinces are saying so many construction workers are set to retire that the industry is going to have a major issue on its hands. People won't be able to find any construction workers, since fewer students and young workers are going into construction. So there's a problem.
In urban areas, contractors have a lot of trouble finding employees to do construction. We're trying to move jobs from urban areas to Williams Lake, a rural community where people are looking for work. Many trained workers could work in construction in a factory. We therefore offer a solution that's well aligned with current labour priorities.