Evidence of meeting #133 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Can we get a vote on that? Yes, I'd like to put forward a motion.
Madame Sirois, there are 350,000 seasonal workers across Canada. We see concentrations in Quebec and in the Atlantic provinces, but they're everywhere and they are absolutely vital. I want to pick up on something you said and something we heard in the extensive round table discussions and consultations we had in 2021 and 2022. What we heard is that jobs may be seasonal, but workers are not.
I want you to speak a little about the vital work seasonal workers do. Also, please speak about the variations and differences we see among regions in Canada and industries. Furthermore, perhaps shed some light on how you think EI should be tailored to reflect some of those variations, both regional and sector-specific.
Chief Executive Officer, Action-Chômage Côte-Nord
Thank you for the question.
I am going to tell you about seasonal industry as I know it where I live. I can tell you a bit about it because I was a seasonal worker for 30 years, in a nursery in Forestville. In fact, on the ground, a lot of women seasonal workers live in a state of anxiety because there are too many variations in the requirements for employment insurance and they do not always reflect the situation in our region.
Some people, at least people who are able to, have to hold more than one seasonal job. Even by doing that, however, we are not able to make ends meet at the end of the month with employment insurance. Where I live, on the upper north shore, you have to work 700 hours before you qualify for 14 weeks of benefits. In our region, the businesses are only seasonal. In a village like Tadoussac, some seasonal industry workers are employed during the summer but are unable to find another job during the winter because not many are available in the region.
Where I live, there are about 1,800 jobless workers during the summer, but that number climbs to 5,800 or 6,000 during the winter. Those figures give you an idea of the importance of seasonal industry in our region. That is the case everywhere on the north shore. One of the difficulties we face is that the villages are not close to one another and we have no public transit. So people live in a “black hole” for a period that may be as long as 18 weeks.
What we would like is for all of the employment insurance economic regions to be eliminated once and for all, because they do not in any way reflect the situation in our regions. As my friend Mr. Thibodeau said earlier, we are calling for a universal threshold of 420 hours' work, or twelve 15‑hour weeks, and a 70% benefit rate applied to the 12 best weeks.
I don't know whether you can imagine the situation, but with the cost of living today, people are receiving only 55% of their pay, sometimes less. On the upper north shore, benefits are calculated based on the 22 best weeks, but when people can only put together 18 or 19, that brings their benefits down.
It is unacceptable for seasonal jobs, whether in a peat bog or a nursery, or in the tourism industry or the fishery, not to be recognized as real work. These are not summer jobs for students. They are real jobs and they are important. These workers have to be protected over the winter. Where I live, right now, people are leaving the region because they are not able to survive on a seasonal job. So they go and work somewhere else. The rate of decline in our population is the highest in Quebec, and that is certainly somewhat connected with employment insurance.
I would like to point out that seasonal businesses are important for Canada as a whole. Attacking and impoverishing these workers jeopardizes a number of businesses in the region when they are unfortunately unable to hire year-round. Mr. Pinchbeck talked to us earlier about ski resorts. Where I live, there is no fishing in winter, no peat is collected in winter, and there are fewer tourists during that season than in summer. For those reasons, we need an employment insurance system that reflects the reality of life outside the cities. So we are calling for the outright elimination of employment insurance economic regions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Kusmierczyk.
The floor is yours for six minutes, Ms. Chabot.
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My sincere thanks to Ms. Sirois, Mr. Thibodeau and Mr. Pinchbeck. I believe your testimony offers an important illustration, I would even say major illustration, of an economic reality that is underestimated or ignored: the reality of seasonal industry as a whole in our towns and outside our urban areas, more or less everywhere in Canada. This study is also important to me.
Ms. Sirois, I want to recognize the dedication you have shown over all these years, both to the work you have done in the field and for your defence and advocacy for the rights of unemployed workers today. In your testimony, you were about to tell us about solutions. I think you have called repeatedly for solutions, to no avail.
What would be concrete solutions that would ensure that consideration be given to seasonal industry workers?
Chief Executive Officer, Action-Chômage Côte-Nord
Thank you for your question, Ms. Chabot.
I want to congratulate you too on the work you do for us seasonal industry workers in Parliament. Thank you.
The solutions are simple. We want the bar for qualifying for employment insurance to be 420 hours for seasonal industries. The difference between 420 hours and the 700 hours currently required is much too big for a region like ours. Where we live, we are at the maximum, but the bar is set at 700 hours. We want it to be lowered to 420 hours, or twelve 15‑hour weeks.
We are also requesting a benefit rate of 70% over the 12 best weeks of work, 35 weeks of benefits payable, and an additional 15 weeks of protection for jobless workers who hold seasonal employment for as long as the 35‑week minimum has not been set.
Reducing the hours of work required is the only way to eliminate the black hole and give seasonal industry workers access to employment insurance.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Ms. Sirois.
And a sincere welcome to you too, Mr. Thibodeau, especially since you say you work as a volunteer.
I don't know what percentage seasonal work represents in your region, but we can see it's a major economic fact. You also mentioned the black hole. I would note that, in 2018, the federal government—correct me if I'm wrong—introduced a five-week pilot project in 13 pilot regions for seasonal industry workers across Canada. It then committed to improving those pilot projects and making them permanent, but all that it's done year after year is extend the five-week period.
Would you please explain to us how that no longer meets the needs of seasonal industry workers?
Spokesperson, Seasonal Workers Help and Support
Thank you very much, Ms. Chabot.
I'm proud to be here with you today. As you said, volunteer work is a lot of work. I must say I do support a lot of people.
The seasonal industry is the core of the New Brunswick economy, especially on the Acadian Peninsula and in rural regions. Working in the seasonal industry means you can't pick blueberries, strawberries or raspberries in winter. It also means you can't go to ice cream parlours or seasonal restaurants in winter.
In 2018, when we got organized and went to work with Ms. Sirois and all the other committees, a lot was happening at home in Caraquet. A lot of frustrated people were protesting. That's what brought on the five-week pilot project, which was a good fit for the needs at the time.
Today, with the unemployment rate in the great economic region of Restigouche-Albert, the five-week pilot project no longer reflects the needs of the people, who need a lot more weeks of employment insurance benefits. The present situation really doesn't reflect the economy of workers in the seasonal industry in New Brunswick, especially those on the Acadian Peninsula and in the rural regions of the Restigouche-Albert region.
You should know that a $5 million study was conducted on the subject. We worked hard with all the major players for an employment insurance reform, which still hasn't been adopted. Ms. Chabot, you often rose in the House to speak on our behalf and to request that reform, which had been promised, but that was a promise not kept.
However, the government has all the necessary tools to introduce the reform but no will to do so. I remember a meeting that the minister attended. He didn't want to state the reasons to the provincial Conservative government at that time, but I think that was misplaced pride. In the meantime, our people have been left to suffer. You mustn't forget the misery our people are experiencing.
Consequently, the pilot project no longer meets the needs of seasonal industry workers, who need more weeks of benefits. As my colleague Line Sirois and I have said, we need 15 weeks added to the pilot project. We also need recognition and increased protection for seasonal workers. We're talking about 420 hours of work to qualify, 15 weeks added to the pilot project and 35 weeks of benefits.
You need to know that we have a tourism industry in our region—
Liberal
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to ask Mr. Thibodeau to continue on. I see that Mr. Thibodeau was here almost four years ago with similar information for this committee.
I want to ask if you could also expand on the connection between seasonal work and climate change. We know that the EI needs modernization and needs reform. How do we also incorporate the fact that, for seasonal workers, the timing of that season might be changing or has changed?
Spokesperson, Seasonal Workers Help and Support
The environment can definitely play a role. There are places in New Brunswick, for example, where river water levels are rising. These things can be difficult.
However, seasonal work has been there and will always be. It's a need.
I'd like to continue what I was saying earlier because I was cut off. I was talking about the seasonal tourism industry. In the tourism industry where we live, workers have held the same jobs for years. This year, however, they were five hours short of qualifying for EI, but they couldn't get those hours from their employers. It's ridiculous. Where are those people going to go to get work? They work hard. They even work three or four jobs trying to get the necessary total number of work hours to qualify for EI, but they can't get there. It's hard.
Yes, the environment can be a factor. The peat bogs will always be here. The blueberries, raspberries and strawberries will always be here. The fishing will still be here too because I don't think the sea, the fish, the lobster or the crab will dry up. There will always be water, so fishermen will always fish.
Seasonal industry workers need to be recognized and respected, regardless of what the environment's doing. Thank you.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you so much.
I'll ask witness Pinchbeck as well about that idea of climate change and how the seasons might have changed. If the government is going to open up EI and modernize, what do they need to think about in terms of the changing seasons or the timing of that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Ski Council
It's an excellent question. What we have seen and will continue to see in Canada's winter sports industry is twofold. There will be a continual decline of what we call our total number of ski days. I mentioned in my presentation 100 to 150, which will go down over the next number of years. We will also see more weather-interrupted events.
I think the answer to this question is very similar to what my fellow presenters are advocating for. We need to look at, in our case, rural ski areas as a different subset of what their regions might be. Again, when we go out to Invermere, British Columbia, where Panorama Mountain Resort is located, that's very similar to Blue Mountain in that it's 700 hours to qualify for EI benefits and a relatively short week. When Panorama loses a few days or a few weeks of season because of weather events.... They're a heavy snow-making ski area. They have invested significantly in protecting their business, but it still happens. Those employees are left—
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I'm sorry to cut you off. I don't have much time.
I don't think there's anywhere in B.C. that qualifies for the government exemptions of additional weeks of employment insurance. Are you aware of any?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Ski Council
I am not aware of any.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you.
I still have two minutes, so I'll ask witness Sirois a question.
I'm sure you're as frustrated as potentially some of the other witnesses on this call are. I'm sure you've been talking about this for probably more than a decade. I wonder if you could share your thoughts on how the seasons have changed, how seasonal work has changed and how climate change is and might be affecting the workers you represent.
Chief Executive Officer, Action-Chômage Côte-Nord
Thank you for your question.
It's significant where we live. There are increasing numbers of forest fires on the north shore as a result of climate change. When huge fires break out, forest access is shut down and no one's allowed to work. As a result, workers accumulate fewer hours and, in some instances, can't even qualify for EI. People here have been affected by climate change and forest fires for two years now. Forest workers call us because they don't have access to their regular jobs. Seasonal workers who plant trees, prepare the forest and cut down trees can't qualify for EI. Those who can qualify still experience the black hole in winter. It's harder with climate change.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Just to follow up on that, we recently had witnesses here talking about affordable housing and mass timber. I'm wondering if you think there is an opportunity to revitalize the industry around wood and resource extraction, I guess, of wood in Canada.
Chief Executive Officer, Action-Chômage Côte-Nord
We hope we can get the lumber industry back on track one day because its situation is increasingly difficult. Ten years ago, businesses like Kruger were all over the region, but now they've shut down. If we could restart—
Liberal