Evidence of meeting #133 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Fernand Thibodeau  Spokesperson, Seasonal Workers Help and Support
Line Sirois  Chief Executive Officer, Action-Chômage Côte-Nord
Paul Pinchbeck  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Ski Council
Janet Krayden  Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association
Angella MacEwen  Senior Economist, National Services, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Ariane Calvert

11:55 a.m.

Spokesperson, Seasonal Workers Help and Support

Fernand Thibodeau

Yes, there are a lot of people where I live who are nearing retirement and are a little older. We also have a lot of young people who are illiterate or who had learning disorders at school. Seasonal work was the best option for them. Some even left school to help their parents. A family with two children can specialize in a single area. It also varies with age where we live.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Mr. Thibodeau.

We'll have to end with that as we've now concluded our first hour. Again, I want to thank the witnesses for appearing this morning and providing testimony to the panel. You are free to go.

We will suspend for a few minutes while we transition to the panellists for the last hour. We'll suspend for no more than three minutes.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

We will resume the second hour of witness testimony on this study by welcoming two witnesses who are appearing in person in the room. We have Ms. Janet Krayden, agricultural workforce expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association, and Ms. Angella MacEwen, senior economist, national services, Canadian Union of Public Employees.

You have five minutes for your opening statement, and I will advise you when your five minutes are up.

We'll begin with Ms. Krayden for five minutes, please.

Janet Krayden Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

Thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the great Canadian mushroom industry.

The agriculture sector creates about 570,000 jobs in Canada—one in 34 jobs—generating $150 billion and 70% of Canada's GDP. That's not small potatoes. About half of the workforce is employed in permanent occupations, and half are employed seasonally due to Canada's winters and growing season. Agriculture is facing a chronic and increasing labour shortage. The most recent statistics from the Canadian Agricultural HR Council identifies over 28,000 jobs that went unfilled in Canada's agriculture sector, costing the sector $3.5 billion in lost revenues.

Canada has a strong and adaptable high-tech mushroom sector within the ag sector that contributes over $1 billion to the Canadian economy. Mushrooms double in size every day. Canada grows over 150,000 tonnes of mushrooms annually. If you buy a fresh mushroom in a Canadian grocery store, it comes from one of our local Canadian mushroom farms. All of our workers are essential, and we are proud of them. Mushroom farms are big job creators in Canada, offering competitive wages.

Seventy per cent of employees on our farms are Canadian. We are constantly recruiting for local workers and use the temporary foreign worker program as a last resort for our high-demand, entry-level positions, such as the harvesting labour occupation. We are the largest sector employer for the temporary foreign worker program's agricultural stream, employing over 2,400 workers when Canadians do not apply. Mushroom farms pay good wages for a variety of jobs, including harvesting, human resources and growers. Our harvesting labourers make above minimum wage, as they are paid piece-rate. Some workers can make up to $29 an hour.

Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association members worked together on a mushroom fair labour and ethical recruitment program that supports employer best practices. One of the things our farms do is have our HR teams make sure workers are signed up for the correct programs, such as employment insurance. Sir, our agricultural stream workers are eligible to use employment insurance, the same as all Canadians. They use it when they are sick or injured. During COVID, they originally used EI. As they were often isolated, they used CERB following all public health regulations. In cases of short-term disability, some farms have short-term disability insurance plus EI coverage.

Another situation among our agricultural stream workers in the temporary foreign worker program is the use of EI for maternity leave when female agricultural stream workers get pregnant. They qualify for the standard 600 hours within a year, just like Canadians in the domestic workforce. They receive 55% of their income. Under EI rules, they get one year of maternity leave for up to a year and a half. At the end of the maternity standard leave allocation, workers return to work.

This is where we are having problems with the temporary foreign worker program: housing issues. We need housing options for workers beyond employer-paid housing, which is communal. Workers are paying $30 per week for housing, even though they're making above the prevailing wage or higher. We find that there are very stringent rules in the program for farm employers and workers. This is the only option they are allowing right now. We're not finding a lot of options being developed within the agriculture and seafood programs we're working on.

For our workers who are pregnant or who have children.... The babies cry and other workers, understandably, complain. We need flexibility for workers with families. We've been discussing this with the temporary foreign worker program directorate, but we are being ignored. The majority of mushroom farms offer excellent-quality, apartment-style housing, with only one to two workers per bedroom. We have a video that I think has been distributed to everyone. It will also be available within the submission.

Immigration Canada is encouraging families to come to Canada. If they apply to the agri-food pilot, their families can come to Canada with open work permits. We strongly support the agri-food immigration pilot, and we also strongly support the open work permits for spouses, but we need other options for housing. This is what we continue to explain.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Ms. Krayden, your five minutes have gone over.

12:05 p.m.

Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

Janet Krayden

Okay. I'll just finish up.

Our farmers are forced to keep housing empty, this kind of quality housing, when workers choose to live on their own, and it costs a billion dollars a year, so we've made very good recommendations with proper worker protections that we continue to advocate for and that I'm willing to answer questions about.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Time has gone well over now.

12:05 p.m.

Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

Janet Krayden

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

You can address any other point when you're questioned.

Ms. MacEwen, you have the floor for five minutes.

Angella MacEwen Senior Economist, National Services, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Thank you.

Good morning. I'm here on behalf of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. It's Canada's largest union with over 700,000 members. We deliver quality services in communities across Canada in a broad cross-section of the economy: health care, education, municipalities, libraries, universities, colleges, child care, public utilities and airlines. This is something that we're following.

Some regions of Canada have a disproportionate number of jobs that are seasonal in nature, and I just want to point out how we sometimes talk about it. It is a reflection of the economic reality of those regions and not of the workers. They are not seasonal workers; they are seasonal industries.

Employment insurance being available to workers in these seasonal industries provides a macroeconomic stabilizing effect for the regions and buffers the ups and downs of those industries.

One factor here is that the duration of EI benefits depends on the number of hours that a worker has worked but also the unemployment rate in their EI region. Over time, over the past few years, the unemployment rate in Canada has trended down, and this has meant the appearance of what is called a black hole in some of these seasonal regions, where unemployment insurance is no longer enough to fill the gap in seasonal employment. EI has offered some pilot projects starting in 2018 that offer extra weeks, but that's a band-aid solution and is not working.

Since the extra weeks pilot was introduced in 2018, the unemployment rate in the 12 targeted regions in eastern Canada dropped by nearly 3%, so it's even harder now to qualify for employment insurance, and when you do, you get far fewer weeks of entitlement. Compared to the rest of Canada, where the unemployment rate has only dropped 1%, this is really hitting these seasonal regions.

Every percentage point drop in the regional unemployment rate means two fewer weeks of EI benefits for an unemployed worker. Since 2018, we now need an extra six weeks to make up that gap. A lower unemployment rate in these regions doesn't necessarily mean that it's easier to get a job. It just means there are fewer people there looking for a job. There's a falling labour force participation rate, an aging population and lots of other reasons that this is happening.

The increased number of temporary migrant workers is starting to get to the size where it's kind of distorting this signal of the unemployment rate. Before workers come to Canada to work, they're not counted as unemployed workers; they're not counted in that labour supply. Unemployment is meant to be an indication of the supply of available workers, but those workers aren't counted. It could mean up to a percentage point or two in the difference in the unemployment rate if we did count those workers.

Another factor is the design of the EI economic regions. Some of the sub-regions most affected are lumped in with other areas that have a completely different economic profile—for example, the New Brunswick peninsula, southern Nova Scotia and parts of Quebec. Advocates in these regions have been asking for a review of EI boundaries for some time to address this fact.

We have some recommendations.

Increase the number of extra weeks in the pilot project from five to 15.

Introduce a new reason for separation in the record of employment called seasonal layoff, which streamlines the administration of these claims and makes the process fair to workers.

Another thing we could do is allow workers to try jobs and not be penalized for doing so. Currently, if a worker takes a risk on a job that is uncertain and it doesn't work out, and they quit or are fired, they lose their access to EI benefits. They're now no longer eligible, so workers might decide not to take a risk on a job because they don't know whether or not that's going to mean losing benefits.

Then, finally, review the EI boundaries to make sure that they're representative of the economic realities in the region.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. MacEwen.

We'll begin the first round with Mr. Aitchison for six minutes.

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses here this afternoon as well.

I mentioned earlier that in Parry Sound—Muskoka, where I'm from, we have a large seasonal workforce. They're resort staff and that kind of thing and cooks who prepare amazing meals in the summer, but they worry about how they're going to feed their own families, so I definitely have questions for you.

I want to thank you again for being here. Our time is limited, though.

I also want to do something else. I want to give verbal notice of a motion, if I could, Mr. Chair, to my colleagues around the table. I'll read it now, if that's okay.

It reads:

Given that, in order to save Canadians up to $50,000, reduce mortgage payments by $2,200 every year on a typical home, and build 30,000 more homes every year;

The committee report to the House its recommendation to remove the federal GST on new homes sold for under 1 million dollars.

That's the motion. It's very simple. I don't think there's anything alarming in that.

We know the housing crisis is getting worse. Rents, mortgages and the price of the average home have all doubled in the last nine years. Back in October 2015, it only took about 39% of median, pre-tax household income to cover home ownership costs. Now it takes over 60%. Government charges—we've said this over and over—account for more than 30% of the cost of a home. Of course, the GST is the biggest share of that.

This committee has heard overwhelmingly from those in the industry, including some of the witnesses we heard from earlier, that housing costs are a huge part of the affordability crisis in this country. The Conservatives have proposed this bold solution to remove the GST on new homes under a million dollars. I think it's time we propose that to the House.

I just wanted to put that on verbal notice, if I might, Mr. Chair.

Is everyone good with that?

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

It's on notice. It will come back at a future date, Mr. Aitchison.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

That's great. Thank you.

How much time do I have left now?

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

You have about four minutes. It's a little less, but it's roughly four minutes.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Okay. Thank you very much.

I thought Irek was going to cause problems there and slow me down, but he didn't. He was close, but he didn't.

Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

I was about to.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Okay. Thanks very much.

I'll start with Ms. Krayden, if I might.

In many rural and remote parts of Canada, agriculture represents the first job many young Canadians will ever have. We know that youth unemployment in Canada continues to rise and young Canadians struggle to find their first jobs, even in an agricultural region like the Okanagan, as an example.

What are some of the cost challenges that agricultural businesses are facing that might limit their ability to hire and train young Canadians?

12:15 p.m.

Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

Janet Krayden

We find that for Canadian domestic jobs and youth, we have a better chance of recruiting them for more internship-type programs and what people would call the higher-skilled jobs. What we're finding is that, for what we would say are the entry-level, harvesting labourer positions, what's generally happening—and this has been documented through surveys—is that people will apply, occasionally including young people as well, and then a lot of the time, they leave after a day. That's very common.

We find there's a better connection for more of an internship-type program. On a lot of farms, you have a lot of grower positions, which include a lot of science, HR positions and interim and farm manager positions. There's a better connection there. If ESDC worked with the industry on that, I think you would have a much better chance of recruiting and retaining youth.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

You mentioned science positions and the growing. A lot of training is obviously involved in that.

12:15 p.m.

Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Can you speak to the cost of that training? That must be a significant input cost of hiring young people.

12:15 p.m.

Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

Janet Krayden

We haven't actually tracked that, but we know we do a lot of on-the-job training on the farms. Every farm is a little different and every sector is different, and it takes tremendous time and cost. Basically, none of that is being tracked or recognized a lot of the time within the departments because the on-the-job training that goes on at the farm is really not recognized, for example, by the immigration department. We are finding this very difficult because it's an unrecognized area. The time and the cost are also not being tracked by the departments, unfortunately.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Can you speak to the impact of high inflation and interest over the last couple of years? What kind of impact has that had on your industry?

12:15 p.m.

Agricultural Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association

Janet Krayden

Yes. We find that costs across the board for all of what they call their inputs and expenses to run a farm have gone up maybe 30% or more—on things like fertilizer, for example.

The carbon tax is not helping. We've been hopeful that the private member's bill on the carbon tax would go through and include the heating of buildings. We're not included for any exemptions, unfortunately, even though we heat the buildings for the mushroom farms. They are getting charged an extraordinary amount of carbon tax. It's just one more expense on top of the increasing inflation the farmers are absorbing.