Evidence of meeting #134 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
That's unacceptable.
If I turn my volume up, I'm hearing her French in the room and on the channel with the English. I'm hearing it all on one. If I turn it down, I hear nothing except what's in the room. It's unacceptable as a member of Parliament for me to be contributing to committee and to not be able to hear the language that my colleague wants to speak in.
November 5th, 2024 / 11:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
I do not approve the language validations and the technical aspects. The technical people do, and they meet the standards set by the House of Commons.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
I'm sorry, Chair, but that is unacceptable. If I can't hear a colleague of mine who is speaking in another language, how can we participate equally in the committee?
It's not acceptable. It's impeding our ability to actually participate and be heard in the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mrs. Falk. There could be some differences. I was able to hear the translation with no problem.
I have Mr. Seeback next, and then I'll go to Mr. Coteau, on a point of order.
Conservative
Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
On that point of order, yes, there was an agenda for an in camera meeting to discuss several things. There was a motion to move out of in camera and change the agenda, and Madame Chabot voted in favour of that. I'm not sure why she's so confused as to where we are. She decided to disrupt the agenda and vote with the Liberal motion.
Liberal
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I rise on a point of order.
I was accused of being confused. I would like an apology.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
That was debate.
I'm going to Mr. Coteau. Keep it narrow. The committee voted to move in public.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I just have a quick question, Mr. Chair, with regard to relevance.
What's in front of us right now as a committee?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
There was no specific item attached to the motion to move in public.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Wouldn't it be correct to assume that if nothing is in front of us, then nothing is relevant, and therefore we should probably move to some type of motion or something? We have to place something in front of us. We're just talking about nothing.
That was in order to move something or to do something.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Mrs. Gray has the floor. The committee is scheduled for two hours.
Mr. Fragiskatos, go ahead.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I have a point of order, Chair.
Look, there are differences between parties on a range of issues. My experience has always been that we've engaged each other with respect and with decorum. Mr. Seeback's comments about Ms. Chabot are really out of line. He should apologize for saying something like that and questioning whether or not a member understands what she's doing. It's just not collegial.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Fragiskatos.
On points of order, I will be really clear on being relevant.
We're now going to return to Mrs. Gray.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Here we are at this committee, which is the human resources committee. We really do deal with lots of compassionate types of issues at this committee. We've heard some pretty impactful testimony on how people are struggling. We know that recently there was the Food Banks Canada “2024 Hunger Report”, which stated that there was a historic number of visits in March 2024 alone, over two million—I think it was 2,059,636.
We know that life has become more expensive for Canadians after nine years of this government. Food Banks Canada released the data showing that a record number of Canadians are struggling just to keep their heads above water, and having to rely on food banks.
According to their HungerCount, food banks recorded these historic numbers, which is an increase of 6% from the previous year, and a shocking 90% increase from 2019. We know that over a quarter of those visits were made by children, which is really heartbreaking. As a result of these historic levels of demand placed on food banks, nearly 30% of food banks across the country—across their network—reported running out of food in the last 12 months.
I'm not sure if anyone has seen some of the headlines very recently, even over the last couple of weeks, about food banks really coming out and reporting on this. Many food banks are concerned with being able to fulfill their holiday commitments, their Christmas commitments. Another 56% reported giving out less food to avoid running out before they could serve anyone. In 2021, these numbers were 10% and 20% respectively. We can see the huge increase here.
Something that lots of people don't talk about with inflation—and we know that food inflation was higher than inflation itself, once we break it down—is that the numbers don't go back down. When you have food inflation that's over 8%, 9%, 11%, if inflation itself comes down below 2%, it's still at that higher amount, which is why people are having such a tough time. When inflation goes down, say, below 2%, that doesn't mean it goes down to what it was back in 2018. It's still at that higher amount, which is why we're seeing so many families really struggling.
We know that Food Banks Canada also reported that up to 25% of Canadians are living in a state of poverty, while 35% of Canadians feel worse off financially. Among those who reported experiencing a worsening financial situation compared to three months ago, 40% cited the rise in the cost of food as the primary reason, and 30% of Canadians are worried about not being able to feed themselves and their families.
We know that the carbon tax does add to the cost of food. We know that it adds to the cost of transportation.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
It's not my intention to interrupt, of course, but Mrs. Gray began her talk here today about ministerial appearances. She does have a motion on notice on that very subject. If she wanted to put that motion forward, I think we would welcome that—certainly, on our side. We would be ready to vote. That would be staying on topic.
She's now deviating to another topic; however, I leave that with her to decide. That motion is something we're ready to look at.
Liberal
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
There isn't a topic, because we don't have an agenda for an out-of-camera portion here, but thank you for your consideration.
We know that Stats Canada released new numbers showing that for the eighth time in nine quarters Canada's GDP per capita had dropped. Why is GDP per capita important? What the government talks about a lot is GDP, yet GDP per capita is actually relative to the productivity of a country. It is also relative to how people are doing in their households. We know that the GDP per capita of Canada has gone down over the last nine years. We know that Canada's productivity has gone down. The OECD actually has Canada on track to be one of the least productive countries over the next many years, unless there is a substantive change in fiscal and economic policy made by the government.
The GDP per capita for Canada has now fallen more than for any other G7 country since the year before COVID. This is the direct result of higher taxes on everything from capital gains to energy and work. There are higher taxes on everything. Also, the debt has grown more during these nine years of this government than at any other time, accumulated from all the previous governments in Canada.
The gap between U.S. and Canadian incomes is now worse than at any time in the last century, as the average American now earns $20,000 more than the average Canadian. This is a substantial difference. We had testimony here recently from one of the witnesses on the housing study. When we were asking about losing business here in Canada to the U.S., and why we were losing that to the U.S, he referred to the fact that that was true, and that we were also losing workers, because of the opportunity, but also even just because the cost of living was less. I think one witness referred to his son potentially even looking at that. This is real, when we're losing opportunity in Canada and when businesses are looking to the U.S.
Recently, we even had Mark Carney's company saying that they're going to be moving Brookfield out of Canada to the U.S., which is absolutely interesting considering that Mr. Carney is one of the top advisers to the Prime Minister. I think he's called his top economic adviser, and yet he's moving that company to the U.S. That was just announced. That's really quite interesting.
We know that when we look at the GDP per capita, this means lower wages in comparison to the U.S., which means Canadians can afford less, and there's less they can spend on food, housing and basic necessities. We also know that governments can afford less for schools and hospitals. These are the direct results of that.
We know that Canada is falling behind other countries because of weak business investment, a lack of competition and a failure to really look at the workforce and to lower taxes. This lower GDP per capita is a made-in-Canada issue. The current government quite often will blame so much on everyone else, including global factors. There is some of that, but really, when you look at GDP per capita, when you look at tax increases, there is so much that we can look at that is a direct result of policies of this current government. Lots of these issues are made-in-Canada issues.
We know that there's been investment has has been driven out of the country for everything. We look at housing being so much less in the United States. We know that fuel costs less. The United States doesn't charge a carbon tax on the fuel that their citizens use. Really, Canadians deserve better, and we're really falling behind other countries, in particular the United States.
We know as well that when we look at EI, for example, employment insurance, it does come through this committee as well, which is why it would be really important to have the minister come here for longer than an hour. His portfolio covers so much that we need to ask him about.
In August, just under 500,000 Canadians were claiming employment insurance. That was the fourth consecutive monthly increase, and an increase of 26,000 people from the same time last year. As a result of this, Canada reached a 20-month high in the number of people who were claiming EI. We also know, as part of this, that the largest group of people who are collecting EI are young adults, so we can see why young adults are struggling, having mental health issues and losing hope of ever being able to afford a home or being able to have a good lifestyle. It's incredibly sad, which is why you're seeing so many young adults who are coming out en masse not in favour of the policies of this government.
We know that, in September, the labour force survey showed that, year over year, employment had only increased by 313,000 people, while the working-age population surged by 1.2 million, leaving an enormous employment deficit. Since January 2023, Canada's employment rate has followed a downward trend, falling by a full percentage point. We also know that Canada's GDP per capita is currently on track to decrease again, so unless there are substantive economic and fiscal policy changes made by this government, all of the trajectories aren't looking positive, in particular for our young adults.
It was expected that food will cost—