Human Resources Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I am ready. Thank you, Chair.

I might have missed it, but I know you recognized MP Cormier as being online. I don't think you noted that I'm also online today. I wanted witness Potter to know that I am online today.

Witness Potter, I really appreciate your introduction of the need for stability for these workers in what can be a very unstable environment.

There are two areas of modernizing EI that I'm particularly interested in. One is stabilization in natural disasters—you were talking about how natural disasters and global events can affect your industry. Second is the opportunity to modernize EI for women—women in seasonal work, maternity leave, care for family and these sorts of things.

I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing some of the opportunities to modernize that you've seen in EI, with the changing climate and with the global unrest.

Perhaps you could also share a bit about what women who speak to you have experienced as seasonal workers in Canada.

[Beth Potter]

I think it's incredibly appropriate that I'm talking to you today from Iqaluit, where seasonal work is very prevalent.

The ability for Canadians to access extended EI benefits to support themselves and their families is something that is often spoken about to me. They're looking for additional supports as well, whether it's in subsidized housing or child care. Those are the two big things that I hear about specifically from women.

Subsidized housing and child care would certainly be welcomed by women in our industry. We've seen in some parts of the country that those kinds of programs have augmented the number of women.

Primarily, we're a people-facing industry. We employ a lot of women. We are one of the number one employers of women, because we look after people. We provide them with great experiences. That fits in well with the nature of most women.

Providing additional supports through programs such as EI would be incredibly helpful.

I have not had anyone speak to me specifically about extending maternity leave. I do know that the extension.... Being able to take the full year and being able to share part of that time with a spouse is incredibly welcomed and supported.

As I said, it's having EI programs that are specifically addressing seasonal workers to make sure there is flexibility and accountability for the fact that seasonal work doesn't look the same in every part of our country.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

You said you're in Iqaluit. I think it's Nunavut day today.

[Beth Potter]

It is.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Could you explore or expand a little on what you have seen in regard to climate change and how it has affected seasonal work up north?

[Beth Potter]

I was just in a meeting this morning where they were talking about what the opportunities are to adjust businesses, target new markets and explore new opportunities because of climate change and because the earth is warmer now. What it very much comes back to all the time is this: How do we protect the land, protect the people, and protect the arts, culture and heritage of Canadians while still...?

The link to tourism is incredibly important in that, but by sharing the stories and by sharing the values, cultural heritage and practices around the land, this is what people in northern Canada see as a way of protecting their history. It's a way of proudly sharing what Canada is all about. It is very much top of mind.

When we look at what happened in Jasper this year and the wildfires, some conversations are now very much top of mind. How do we make sure we are prepared? What steps and actions can we take now to protect not only our town but also our people, in case something like Jasper should happen in Banff, as an example? These conversations are happening more and more now. It's a change that I've seen in recent years. These conversations have risen to the top of the priority list. We'll be hosting our tourism congress in Vancouver in the first week of December. Emergency preparedness is a very large topic. It's about making sure we look after not only the guests but our people as well.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

On that, talking about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You're at six seconds, Madam Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You've concluded? Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Gray, you have five minutes, please.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today, Ms. Potter.

Tourism HR Canada commissioned a survey on the perception of tourism as a place of employment in Canada. They found that people currently working in the tourism sector are more likely to be under 30 or to be students. We also know that youth unemployment in Canada continues to rise. Young Canadians struggle to find their first job even in a region like mine, the Okanagan, where tourism has historically represented many young Canadians' first job.

Are you hearing about cost challenges that tourism operators might be facing that might limit their ability to hire and train young Canadians—things like inflationary cost increases, carbon tax increases that increase the cost of transportation and fuel costs, or federal tax increases like excise tax increases? Are those some of the things you're hearing about? Are there any other cost increases you're hearing about that might create challenges for tourism operators?

[Beth Potter]

Certainly, the increased cost of doing business is challenging all tourism operators right now. It includes everything from the supply chain to the additional taxes and fees they're required to pay at different levels of government.

Tourism represents a diverse workforce. Young people make up one-third of our workforce. We're quite proud of that. We're quite proud that we are the number one employer of youth in our country. We provide that all-important first job and the first on-the-job training and exposure to those soft skills that are transferable to really any job you can go to as you progress in your life.

The bigger challenge we're having is helping Canadians understand that we have jobs, but we also have careers. Transitioning from a job as a young person who's maybe working their way through school to a career—that is what we're really focused on as an industry.

I believe you'll be hearing from Phil Mondor from Tourism HR Canada at one of your upcoming meetings. He will support that we need to wholeheartedly change the concept, change the mindset and bust some of the myths that the only kinds of jobs in the industry are seasonal, temporary and low-paying, and that they don't lead anywhere. That is not the case. In our industry, 70% of our workforce is permanent and full time. They are making above-average wages year round and are being well supported through benefit programs, professional development and increased skill training.

The challenges of hiring youth are not related just to cost but to many factors.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you so much.

We've heard from a number of industry organizations about the increasing debt load of businesses—small businesses, tourism and tourism-related businesses. Just one quote that I'll give you here is from a representative of Maple Leaf Adventures in Vancouver, who was quoted as saying, “Although the tourism industry...is recovering, the businesses are really hurting.” She went on, “I think all of us are carrying the highest debt loads we've ever had.” Of course, if a business is trying to make debt service payments, they have less money for hiring more employees.

Have you heard from some of the tourism operators you speak with? Are they carrying higher debt loads, and is this a concern?

[Beth Potter]

Yes. In fact, we have done some survey work around this over the last couple of years to understand what that debt load looks like. Certainly, coming out of the pandemic, when business operators from coast to coast to coast dove in, they used up any reserve funds they had. They used up their savings before they accessed any kind of government programming that would help get them through the pandemic. They used those dollars, and then they got additional loans to continue support.

In most cases, it was to ensure two things. One was that they still had a business to come back to, and the second was that they still had access to the people who helped them run that business.

It is absolutely a challenge for them. You add on top of that the higher cost of money right now, and that certainly does have an impact. What we've seen is many business owners getting back into the operations and doing some more of the frontline work, some of the back-of-house work that they would not have done prior to the pandemic because they had other staff in place to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gray.

We'll now conclude with Mr. Kusmierczyk for five minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, Ms. Potter, for your excellent testimony here today.

Tourism is such an important part of the economy in my community of Windsor Essex, and I am pleased to hear that tourism is making a huge comeback. We're about 100% back to normal, prepandemic levels. There are six million visitors in Windsor Essex, and this supports about 11,000 jobs across my region, so tourism is incredibly important.

I'm so glad to hear you provide your testimony here today, and I just want to give a huge shout-out to our partners at Tourism Windsor-Essex Pelee Island for the tremendous work they do in promoting tourism to our community.

We're seeing the economy bouncing back as well in a big way. We see, for example, that, in September, 47,000 new jobs were created in Canada, and 33,000 of those jobs are filled by young people ages 15 to 24. We continue to support young people, for example, by permanently removing interest on their student loans to make sure that they're not carrying debt after they graduate from school. We also doubled the student grants and loans that are available for young people, to make sure they don't come out of school with debt when they look for that first work experience.

It's unfortunate that our Conservative colleagues have voted against all measures of relief for young people, which we know are so incredibly vital and important for them.

On the issue of seasonal workers, almost 40% of claimants for EI for seasonal benefits are folks who are 55 and older. I want to ask if you can perhaps provide us some context. What are some of the differences in experiences of seasonal work for young people versus folks who are in that 55 and older range? What should we be paying attention to in terms of how young people experience seasonal work differently?

[Beth Potter]

Thank you for that.

I agree with you 100% that Gordon Orr and his team do a magnificent job down in Windsor-Essex Pelee Island.

One of the differences for young people in seasonal work is that they're constrained by their school year. They come out of school in the April or May time frame and join us. We have a growing shoulder season in the spring and particularly in the fall. We lose a lot of our younger workers in that last half of August, because they're getting ready to go back to school. They're cutting their season a little short because of their commitment to continuing their education. Older seasonal workers don't have that constraint. They can stay with us through the fall.

However, if we look at why a young worker versus an older worker might access EI, the younger worker is back in school and in an environment where they are housed and fed. Once the season is over, the older worker still has to figure out how to cover those costs. It's not surprising that you see that difference. My own kids went through this when they were in post-secondary school. They finished their work and went back to school. It didn't even enter their minds to apply for EI. Somebody older and out of school needs to continue to see income coming in once that job is finished.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I appreciate that excellent answer.

I want to turn the question back to climate change.

One of the things seasonal workers deal with is unpredictability—the fluctuations in the climate we're seeing, such as floods and fires—you name it. There's no better example recently, in my opinion, than the decline in northern shrimp in the Atlantic, which has been devastating for communities in the Gaspé area. The oceans are warming up. It's having an impact on shrimp stocks.

How has climate change impacted seasonal workers? How should EI respond to those devastating natural disasters and events linked to climate change, which, again, unfortunately, my Conservative colleagues bury their heads in the sand over and have no credible plan to address?

[Beth Potter]

Right now, the biggest impact we're seeing is on our winter activities. Climate change is having an impact on our ability to open or keep open, for as long as we can, ski hills, snowmobiling and other winter sports.... We're seeing those sectors in our industry get more vocal about what we need to do about climate change. You may or may not be familiar with a group called Protect Our Winters. It's a global group, but we now have a Canadian chapter. They're pretty active.

This is an important part. Canada is known globally, rightly or wrongly, as an amazing winter destination. Some people think we're a year-round winter destination. We all know that's not true, but the fact is that we are a winter destination.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Potter.

Thank you, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Before we conclude, as chair of your committee, I advised the clerk that I'm going to set aside one hour in Tuesday's meeting, the last hour, to cover the witnesses who were unable to be heard today. As chair, I set the schedule. This is an important study, so we will schedule an additional hour and include it in the last hour on Tuesday, November 19.

With that, we're going to suspend while we transition to the next hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, we are resuming for the second hour of the HUMA meeting today.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 8, 2024, the committee resumes its study of Canada without barriers by 2040.

I would like to welcome to the room with us our only witness for this hour, Ms. Diane Bergeron, president, CNIB guide dogs.

Madam Bergeron, you have five minutes, please.

[Diane Bergeron, President, CNIB Guide Dogs, Canadian National Institute for the Blind]

Thank very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to start by just thanking my colleague Thomas Simpson for being here to support me during my presentation, and I ask you to please be patient with me, as I am listening to my voice synthesizer while reading it out loud. Hopefully, this will work.

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of CNIB, an organization that has been advocating for Canadians who are blind or who have low vision for over a century. My name is Diane Bergeron, and I'm president of CNIB guide dogs. At CNIB, we are committed to making Canada a place where everyone can participate fully, without any barriers.

Today I'd like to highlight some of the areas where we believe the government can take action to achieve a barrier-free Canada by 2040, as outlined in the Accessible Canada Act.

Attitudes continue to be the largest barrier to inclusion for people living with a disability. In Canada, the unconscious stigmas and biases put on people with disabilities by society limit our ability to thrive. I'm a mother, an executive leader and an athlete, yet most people will automatically look to my guide dog and make assumptions about what I can or cannot do.

Culture change is not easy work. It takes time, energy and buy-in.

CNIB's first recommendation is for the Government of Canada to focus its energy and intentions on changing society's attitudes towards people with disabilities. We must increase understanding and dispel myths and conceptions. Simply, society does not understand disability.

When CNIB engaged in its largest consultation to build a new strategic plan, we heard time and time again the realities of living with sight loss. People with sight loss, like me, are ignored in conversations when staff talk past us or to our family members or friends. People with sight loss are stopped in their tracks when they're trying to cross the street, because well-intentioned people don't believe that we can navigate our cities by ourselves. Also, unfortunately, for those of us who work with a guide dog, we are constantly fighting for our rights to enter into public spaces, because people don't understand that guide dogs are allowed everywhere.

By focusing on social inclusion and positive representation, you'll be able to collectively move much more quickly towards the goal of an accessible Canada by 2040. We must remove unconscious stigmas and assumptions. Attitudinal barriers prevent people who are blind or have low vision from obtaining meaningful employment, and Canadians who are blind or have low vision continually face significant barriers, including inaccessible workplaces and a lack of accommodations.

Discriminatory hiring practices are also far too common. The unemployment rate for this group is three times higher than the national average, but we know that employment is the best indicator of positive attitudes among people living with a disability. When CNIB has commissioned public attitude surveys regarding people who are blind or partially sighted, it is those attitudes of their colleagues that are the most positive. This makes sense. When you work with someone you see, you can see how they adapt to everyday problems they face. People with sight loss face problems every day. We are well prepared for problem-solving in the workplace.

CNIB has made strides in supporting individuals in finding meaningful employment, but we need stronger federal backing to expand these initiatives. We also need to ensure that employers understand the benefits of inclusive hiring.

As a result, income security is another pressing issue. Many people with sight loss struggle with inadequate income support compounded by additional costs related to assistive devices and health care. While programs like the Canada disability benefit are promising, they must be designed to address the unique financial realities of people with disabilities.

Additionally, we believe that administrative barriers associated with existing benefit programs must be eliminated, especially during the implementation of the Canada disability benefit. These include repeated clarifications in order to prove disability, inaccessible document formats, and staff who are not trained in supporting applicants with a disability.

We are calling on the committee to ensure that these income supports factor in the increased costs of living, particularly the costs of assistive technology. We also believe that these benefits should be paired with robust employment strategies to ensure that those who want to work can do so. The Accessible Canada Act laid the spirit of a strong foundation, but there are still gaps in the enforcement of accessibility standards. These standards are not being applied consistently across the country, and more must be done to ensure compliance. We're calling for enhanced oversight, including regular audits and meaningful penalties for non-compliance. This will help to ensure that organizations meet their obligations to provide accessible services and spaces. For far too long we have given carrots when sometimes sticks ought to be applied.

Lastly, CNIB believes that part of the road towards a barrier-free Canada is the impact of attitudinal barriers from well-meaning people towards Canadians with disabilities. I know this committee has had many conversations around the importance of mandatory training for federally regulated employees, but I want to once again stress the importance of enforcement of mandatory training for this federal staff.

Static training is not enough. It must be done in consultation with people with the lived experience. Achieving a barrier-free Canada by 2040 is ambitious, but with the right collaborations and commitment, it is possible. CNIB is ready to work alongside governments, businesses and communities to break down the barriers that people with sight loss face every day.

Thank you again for your time, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Bergeron. We'll now open with Ms. Falk for six minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you, Ms. Bergeron, for being here.

My name is Rosemarie Falk, and I am a 36-year-old female. I'm wearing a floral blouse today with a scarf, because I feel like it's cold in here, and I have brown hair.

When this committee was studying Bill C-81, CNIB raised concerns that without clear timelines in the bill, the act would be less impactful and would result in a slow pace of change. From CNIB's perspective, what impact has the lack of timelines had on our progress towards a barrier-free Canada by 2040?

[Diane Bergeron]

I'm trying to remember the name of the leadership professional who once said that if it's not measured and with set timelines, nothing gets done.

I think that because the timelines were not set specifically, there are many federally regulated organizations that are stalling and that are facing an attitude of being pressure prompted, saying, “When the time comes, I'll deal with it,” as opposed to having a look in advance.

Often, when we do stuff like that and we sit back and wait, then it becomes, “Now we have to do it in a rush,” and then we don't consult the people, the very people all of this is going to affect, people with the lived experience, and we reduce the ability to get that consultation. Not having timelines is delaying the process, because people aren't making it a focus, and when it does come up, they're scrambling and they're not able to get the right consultation.