Human Resources Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome, committee members. The clerk has advised me that we do have a quorum.

There is one member appearing virtually. Monsieur Cormier is joining us this morning virtually, and our witnesses are virtual as well.

I'll call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 135 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, according to House of Commons procedure.

I would review a couple of points.

All participants can participate in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available. In the room, make sure you're on the correct channel to get the translation of your choice. For those appearing virtually, click on the globe icon at the bottom of your Surface and choose the official language of your choice.

If there is a disruption in translation services, please get my attention by raising your hand. We'll suspend while that is corrected.

I would also like to remind members to please address all questions through me, the chair. Wait until I recognize you by name. For those appearing by Zoom, use the “raise hand” icon to get my attention.

As well, I will remind you again to make sure that all alarms are turned off on the devices you have with you today, and please refrain from touching the boom on the microphone, because it can cause issues for the translators.

Before I welcome the witnesses, I will advise that we are having sound issues with one witness.

At the last meeting, Ms. Falk raised a valid point. It was on the quality of the sound of the interpretation regarding her experience in using the English interpretation channel. She noted that she could hear the original floor audio when the interpreter was silent. As communicated by the House of Commons to members on October 21, 2024, the latest version of Zoom introduced changes to the audio experience for remote participants in chamber settings and in committee meetings, including those using remote interpretation, and in other events where simultaneous interpretation is provided.

In the updated Zoom version, the interpreter's voice is now played over the original floor audio, whereas previous versions of Zoom muted the floor audio on the interpretation channels. I wish to assure the committee that Ms. Falk's concerns have been conveyed to the committees and legislative services directorate and to the appropriate team within the digital services and real property directorate. A solution is being identified and tested, and more information will be communicated with all parties and members as soon as it is available.

I would advise as well that I met with the technical people responsible, and they expect to have it corrected when we return following constituency week. I had the benefit of sitting at a committee yesterday where it was experienced. The technical people were there at the time and were testing out a new procedure, and it did work in that committee.

Go ahead, Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I want to genuinely thank you for taking seriously my concerns and the difficulties I was having in being able to hear, and for taking the appropriate action. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you for raising it, because it's important that members have the ability to participate and to fully understand. I was comfortable with the progress that was made. As I said, yesterday I did experience the problem and the corrective action that was taken. We will review that when the committee resumes after break week.

That was on Mrs. Falk's point of order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 8, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of workers in the seasonal industry and the employment insurance program.

Two witnesses we have today are Ms. Mandy Symonds, president, Southern Nova Scotia Seasonal Workers Alliance, and Ms. Beth Potter, president and chief executive officer, Tourism Industry Association of Canada.

As you know, we had a fifth witness, but they cancelled at the last moment.

We will begin with Ms. Potter.

Ms. Potter, you have five minutes, please.

[Beth Potter, President and Chief Executive Officer, Tourism Industry Association of Canada]

Good morning.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and the committee, for this opportunity to speak to you today on behalf of Canada's tourism sector.

The Tourism Industry Association of Canada proudly represents more than 240 tourism businesses, both big and small, that operate in each region and every riding across the country.

Last year, tourism spending in Canada reached over $113 billion, and our sector accounted for 1.6% of Canada's GDP. Travel and tourism generate not only significant economic impacts for the Canadian economy, but also promote cultural exchange and foster community pride.

The sector supports approximately two million jobs each year. In recent years, permanent workers account for nearly 70% of the workforce, while 12% are seasonal or temporary and 6% are casual. Of the five tourism industry groups, the recreation and entertainment industry has the highest percentage of seasonal workers at 24%, followed by accommodation at 15% and food and beverage services at 7%.

For many workers in the tourism sector, employment insurance is a lifeline during the off-season or in times when employment is uncertain.

The cyclical nature of many tourism ventures means that employment insurance can be a stabilizing factor for workers. When tourism is in full swing, the industry hires a wide array of seasonal roles. Think of ski instructors in winter or tour guides in summer. When peak seasons end, EI becomes essential for many of these workers. EI allows individuals to bridge the gap between seasonal employment, providing financial stability and helping to keep local economies afloat.

Canada's tourism sector is particularly vulnerable to external factors such as economic downturns, global events and natural disasters. Travel restrictions and public health measures imposed during the COVID-19 pandemic resulted in nearly 800,000 workers leaving our labour force.

Additionally, severe weather disruptions have impacted a wide number of Canadian destinations and tourism operators in the past years. For tourism-driven communities that have been impacted by wildfires, EI has proven to be an essential measure for workers who would otherwise be displaced without a safety net.

A robust employment insurance program can contribute to a more resilient tourism workforce. EI ensures that employers have access to workers year-round, and it bolsters the sector's ability to attract and retain specialized talent. This is especially heightened in our remote and rural tourism hubs, where the local community depends heavily on the visitor economy.

Equally, when workers feel secure, they are more likely to invest in training and skills development. This leads to a more capable and adaptable workforce, ultimately enhancing the visitor experience. Well-trained employees can elevate the quality of service, leading to repeat visitors and positive word of mouth, which is vital for long-term success in tourism.

Some may argue that EI benefits discourage workers from seeking employment during shoulder seasons. However, federal initiatives like the tourism growth program are already helping to boost tourism activity beyond the peak season, enabling operators to scale up and expand their workforce.

Like the goals of the tourism growth program, the EI system needs to be designed in a way that encourages active job seeking while still providing necessary support for seasonal operators and employment. Offering incentives for those who take on temporary positions during low-demand periods could strike the right balance.

It's crucial for the committee to address the needs of tourism sector employees during this prolonged economic recovery. A recent report from Restaurants Canada highlights that small business owners are facing an affordability crisis, with rising costs, increased EI premiums and ongoing bankruptcies. To ease these financial pressures, the federal government must urgently reduce the EI premium rate from 1.66% back to 1.58%. This would provide relief for small businesses and their employees, many of whom are young workers and newcomers in accommodation and food services, who rely on this income to support their education.

In closing, I would stress that effective economic policy empowers both our tourism sector and the workers who make it thrive. Strengthening EI in relation to seasonal employment can enhance the resilience of the tourism workforce, allowing Canada to maintain its status as a top travel destination while ensuring that workers are supported in times of need.

Thank you very much, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Potter.

I'm now going to suspend for a moment while we do a sound test for Ms. Symonds, because it was not clear.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The meeting is back in order.

Before I get to Mrs. Gray, the translation services have advised me that the quality of the sound is not adequate to translate, so with that, we cannot hear verbal testimony from Ms. Symonds.

I have a point of order from Mrs. Gray before I get back to Ms. Symonds.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could we just have clarification of whether that particular witness had undergone a sound check previous to this meeting starting? Usually sound checks are done earlier or the day before.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

She did, and she passed, and today it's not working.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Chair, we've seen this before, where witnesses have gone through sound checks and they have passed, and then a meeting starts and, for some reason, all of a sudden their sound isn't acceptable. Can we please, through you, Mr. Chair, go back to IT or House administration to see how this can be happening? We're seeing this quite often with witnesses, and it's not acceptable, because now the witness may or may not be able to come back, depending on the study. It's an ongoing problem.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

I can proceed only according to the procedures that are given to me, and translation makes the final decision. Ms. Symonds' sound test was approved, and she did clear in the pretest, but unfortunately at the moment it is not adequate.

Ms. Symonds, you can continue to listen in, and we'll make a decision on how we'll get back to you at a later time. If you want to stay online and follow the discussion, that would be fine.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a question of clarification, if that's okay.

Are you able to commit to looking into this? This is, as Mrs. Gray pointed out, a reoccurring problem. It really is a problem, because we, as committee members, need to be able to have our witnesses be heard as well. The fact that this has happened more than once, and the fact that it was a pass and now is a fail, is just inefficient and ineffective.

I'm just wondering if you can commit to doing some digging on that, to see if we can have a resolution. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thanks, Mrs. Falk.

Madame Chabot, go ahead.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I won't put it the same way Ms. Gray did, but I agree with her.

In many cases, the meeting is supposed to start at 11 o'clock, but the sound tests are still being done. I don't know when the witness's sound test was done. Originally, three witnesses were supposed to appear at today's meeting, and now we have just two—which will probably turn into one. The agenda for today's meeting was known to everyone.

How can we fix this?

Sound testing should be done before the meeting starts, so we can start on time. It should not be done the day before. I, too, fail to understand why the sound was fine before the meeting and then wasn't once the meeting started.

Is there some solution we can suggest to Ms. Symonds? Is something wrong with the sound coming from her microphone? I have no idea. It's true that this problem comes up regularly.

Mr. Chair, you gave the committee options for new ways of operating going forward, which we will be debating. Our calendar is already up in the air, and when these kinds of issues arise, we miss out on precious time for all our studies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

Yes, I can get as frustrated as you, but the proper procedure was followed. Ms. Symonds' sound was tested yesterday afternoon, and it was fine; I do not know what changed, but the translation will not proceed with the quality of her sound at the moment.

With that, we will look into it to see what may have changed.

On the other part, I have no control over witnesses advising the chair at the last moment that they are not available to appear. That's simply the nature of this, whether it's in person or virtual, and that does happen.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'll be brief, because I know we have a witness here.

Could we hear about when witnesses are being instructed to be online on the day of the meeting, in order for us to do the sound checks that day? During the pandemic, for example, all of us were online, pretty much. We all had to be online half an hour beforehand. The sound checks were done. There was a lot of back-and-forth, so the meetings could start on time. It seems we're doing a lot of sound checks right when the meetings should be starting.

I'm wondering, through you, Mr. Chair, whether the clerk can advise us on how soon witnesses are being told to be online in order for us to do the sound check before meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

They are advised to be online 30 minutes beforehand. All of that is occurring. From time to time, because of some situations, the interpretation will not proceed.

With that, we'll go to questioning. We have the witness Ms. Potter.

Mr. Aitchison, I believe it's you for six minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If Ms. Symonds is still on, I want to express, again, how sorry I am that this isn't working. We'll try to reach out to her and talk to her a bit more, maybe outside of the meeting.

I will ask questions of Ms. Potter.

I represent an area called Parry Sound—Muskoka. You may have heard of it before. It has a fairly significant tourism industry. The cyclical nature of the industry is something I've known all my life. It's something you grow up with in that region. Your comments about it ring true.

You talked a lot about the EI program, which I know this is largely about. However, I'm wondering if you could speak about the struggles that folks in the tourism industry are dealing with in relation to the general cost of living right now—the cost of food and the affordability crisis we're seeing across the country.

Can you speak about the industry, and the impacts this has on workers in the industry?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Excuse me, Mr. Aitchison. I have been advised that Ms. Potter is no longer in the meeting virtually.

With that, I will suspend until it's corrected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Members, the committee is back in session. The technical issue has been resolved.

I'm going to ask Mr. Aitchison to begin again.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Oh, I get to try it again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Give your question to Ms. Potter, Mr. Aitchison, because I'm not sure if she heard it all. You have six minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Potter, are you there? Can you hear me?

[Beth Potter]

I can hear you.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Wonderful.

We were just talking about the eloquent preamble to my question, so I'm going to try that again here.

I represent an area called Parry Sound—Muskoka. You've probably heard of it. I grew up there. The seasonal nature of the tourism industry in our area and its cycles are a regular part of life in our region. Your comments about that—you mentioned ski hills, summer tours and that kind of thing—are very much a reality in our community. This is an issue I used to deal with as a local municipal councillor.

I wonder if you could speak specifically about the tourism sector and the challenges people in the industry are facing as a result of the cost of living and the affordability crisis we see. I'm sure people in seasonal, cyclical types of industries are feeling that a lot, maybe more acutely than others.

[Beth Potter]

Certainly, Canadians writ large are feeling the pressures of the cost of living.

In the tourism industry, what we've seen over the last number of years is a significant increase in the number of full-time, full-year jobs, which is certainly helping in places like Parry Sound—Muskoka.

That is why, for those 12% who are still in the seasonal or temporary category, it's very important that we have a really good employment insurance program to help those individuals bridge the gap between seasons.

One of the things we have found as an industry is that when we have great people working for us, who help us deliver outstanding experiences for our visitors, it helps put places like Parry Sound—Muskoka on the map for international guests.

What we need to make sure of, though, is that we are providing the appropriate supports for those workers when they are off on leave. As an industry, we are constantly looking at ways we can improve access to programming and access to supports for those workers, but if there's no money coming in the door for a business, they can't continue to pay that worker. That's why programs like employment insurance are incredibly important.