Human Resources Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

We'll now begin with Madam Ferreri for six minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Minister, on October 24, a plethora of child care operators came to Ottawa from British Columbia, Ontario and Alberta, on their own dime, simply to be heard, but you did not meet with them. Why?

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

I meet regularly with child care operators across this country. On that particular day, I can't tell you exactly what I was doing. I believe my staff met with them the day before.

I'm always open to meeting with child care operators, whenever and wherever I can.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's just false. The organizer of that group wrote to you saying that your staff absolutely did go outside, but it was to take photos. She said that it happened “within minutes of [the] meeting start time, for the apparent purpose of further mocking, discrediting, and shaming those present on social media by questioning the group size.”

She has written to you multiple times, including yesterday, December 2. They represent 150,000 licensed child care spaces, or more than 15% of all licensed child care spaces.

You say that you will meet with everyone. Will you commit today to meeting with this group?

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Respectfully, nothing that I said in my previous statement was false. My team did meet with the organizer of that particular group. I am always open to meeting with anyone who operates a child care facility.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

For confirmation, you will commit today to meeting with the ACE National Coalition of Childcare Operators.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Absolutely.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's perfect.

Moving on, Minister, Sergeant Lisa Harris of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary testified at the status of women committee last week, and she stated, “The Public Health Agency of Canada recognizes that children who witness family violence suffer the same emotional and psychological consequences as those who are directly abused.”

Will you commit today to protecting victims and their children by advocating for stricter bail policies?

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

As the minister of families and children, obviously everything I do day in and day out is about ensuring that parents and kids across this country are set up for success. I will always look for opportunities to do that. As you of course know, there are other ministers fully engaged in that file, and I support the work they do.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Have you directly asked those ministers to enforce stricter bail conditions? As you've said, you are the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development. In your opening statement, you said that children deserve to receive the “best possible start in life”, yet we've had the highest increase in child poverty in history under your ministry. Toronto's homeless shelters now have almost triple the number of kids they did eight years ago, with more than 1,400 in hotel rooms paid for by city hall.

I'll ask this again: Will you advocate for stricter bail policies? As we know, many women are being murdered in broad daylight because of bail conditions that allow repeat violent offenders to be out on bail.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

I'm happy to correct the record. When the Conservatives were last in government, the poverty rate for children was 16.3%. The most recent level of poverty for children, which is still too much, absolutely, is 11%. We've put in place a number of measures that have been influential in lifting hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty.

I will put out frankly that you and your colleagues in the Conservative Party have voted against every one of those measures.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Minister, it is quite remarkable for you to sit there and tell that to Canadians, who are using food banks at record-high numbers. This is the highest increase in child poverty in history, with children living in homeless shelters. For you to be so smug and say that everything is great is quite insulting to families.

Moving on, Terri-Lynne McClintic, who abducted and then assisted her boyfriend in the sexually motivated killing of eight-year-old Tori Stafford, has been allowed to be in the presence of children through a mother-child program at a women's federal penitentiary. Also, Tara Desousa, once Adam Laboucan, who sexually assaulted a baby in 1997 and became the youngest dangerous offender in history, now lives with mothers and children in a B.C. jail.

Are you bringing this up to your ministers? Are you advocating that sex offenders and child killers not have access to children in federal prisons?

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

I find this line of questioning and these innuendoes completely disrespectful, frankly. Let me answer—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Tori Stafford's dad finds you completely disrespectful. Just answer the question.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Can I answer the question?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes, please do.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

As the minister of families and children, who wakes up every day with the responsibility of ensuring that we look out for the kids across this country, I take absolutely every opportunity to do that. I live and breathe it, frankly.

As a cabinet, we have conversations. We work collaboratively together when there is cross-touching on various portfolios. Of course, I will always advocate for children's safety. Frankly—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Then will you commit to following up, visiting a federal penitentiary and seeing where these child killers and convicted sex offenders are sharing space with mothers and children?

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

I appreciate the question. I appreciate what you are trying to do here, respectfully—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

What I'm trying to do?

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Respectfully, yes—trying to do.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

What am I trying to do, Minister? Tell me, please. What is it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you. Your time is up.

Mr. Long, you have six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon to my colleagues.

Minister, thanks for coming.

I have just a couple of comments before I ask you some questions.

When I went door to door back in 2015, 2019 and 2021, I saw that people in my riding of Saint John—Rothesay needed support. One thing I'm most proud of is that, as Liberals, we believe that government can do good things for people. We can come forth with national and, I would say, transformational programs that help people most in need. I think as a government we can be and should be judged by how we try to support the most vulnerable and the people who need support most.

You mentioned the Canada child benefit and the changes we made to it in 2016. We targeted it to people in need and increased it with inflation, and so many families, single mothers and so on have benefited and used it as a lifeline.

Further to that, whether it's the child care program or the school meal program, we want to help families, help single mothers and help single parents. I think, as you said, we still have a lot of work to do. There are a lot of challenges we have, but we are doing a lot for Canadians, and I want to thank you for that.

I want to talk about my new premier in New Brunswick, Premier Susan Holt, who is a breath of fresh air after Conservative Premier Blaine Higgs, who fought us every step of the way with respect to programs. We had to drag him kicking and screaming over the early learning and child care line, and he didn't want to participate in the school food program. We saw what happened to Premier Higgs. He lost his own seat. New Brunswickers clearly rejected that form of politics.

To go back to the throne speech that was read two weeks back, building a Canada-wide early learning and child care system relies on dedication and the hard work of early childhood educators, making it essential to attract, reattract and retain skilled professionals. I was really pleased to hear Premier Holt recognize, in the speech from the throne, the critical role the ECEs play in this effort.

How can we best support these educators? I think it's by improving working conditions, increasing wages and offering greater financial support to students entering the field.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much for the question.

I was likewise very encouraged by Premier Holt's remarks and, frankly, the number of times that she mentioned a number of the programs we've been working on together, namely the $10-a-day early learning and child care program, as well as her ambition around joining our national school food program. These are two great examples of programs that provide tremendous financial relief for parents. Of course, we all know how expensive it is to raise a family.

On the specifics in New Brunswick, I would suggest there's still a lot of work to be done when it comes to supporting the workforce. We are now just over halfway through our five-year agreement with New Brunswick on child care. We've seen them get to a 50% reduction in fees. This means that on average, parents are saving $3,600 a year. The average fee in New Brunswick is now down to, I believe, $12.82, so just under $13. They've made some great progress.

Having said that, they have implemented a wage grid for the ECE workforce, which is a positive step to ensuring that ECEs are well compensated and well respected. I will say there are other provinces accelerating their wage grids at a quicker pace and that some provinces have moved forward with benefits and pensions for their workforces. These are important steps forward as we continue to build out this national system. There's still much more to be done, but we're excited to work with the new government there.