Human Resources Committee on April 25th, 2022

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call to order meeting number 18 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today is the last meeting we'll be hearing witnesses on this study. Today's meeting is again taking place in a hybrid fashion. We expect all those attending in person to follow health protocols.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating by video conference, please click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled by the proceedings and verifications officer. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice, and interpretation services are available for this meeting. For those participating by video conference, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use an earpiece and select the desired channel. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we'll ensure that interpretation is properly restored.

For members participating virtually, please use the “raise hand” function. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. I would remind you that all questions should be directed through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 3, 2022, the committee will resume its study of labour shortages, working conditions and the care economy.

I would like to welcome our witnesses. To begin our discussion, we will have five minutes for opening remarks.

I will introduce a few changes, because we were not able to connect with some of the witnesses. From Deloitte, we have Georgina Black, managing partner of government and public services, and Craig Alexander, chief economist and executive adviser. From the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, we have Ivana Saula, research director for Canada. From the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, we have Rocco Rossi, president and chief executive officer, who has now joined us; Michelle Eaton, vice-president of public affairs; and Daniel Safayeni, vice-president of policy.

We're going to begin with five minutes. I would ask witnesses to keep their remarks within five minutes to give our panellists the maximum time to ask questions.

We'll begin with Deloitte. I believe Craig Alexander is going to speak for Deloitte.

Am I correct, or is it now Georgina Black?

[Georgina Black, Managing Partner, Government and Public Services, Deloitte]

Hello. I'm here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Black, you have five minutes.

[Georgina Black]

Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to join all of you today. My name is Georgina Black, managing partner, government, public services and health care, for Deloitte.

As you mentioned, I'm also joined by my colleague Craig Alexander, the chief economist and executive adviser at Deloitte.

For context, Deloitte works with payers and providers across a public, private and not-for-profit ecosystem in Canada and the globe. Our in-house think tank, the Future of Canada Centre, has published research on how to build a thriving nation.

My remarks will highlight some of the recommendations from our report, “Catalyst: A vision for a thriving Canada in 2030” and subsequent white papers. This includes making fundamental reforms to Canada's care economy to support a growth agenda. From our perspective, the care economy includes those who work in health, education and social services, both paid and unpaid.

Prior to the pandemic, the demand for the care economy was already growing. Studies have documented the shortage of workers across child care, elder care, health care and social care for years. Here in Canada, the pandemic not only revealed the shortage of workers across the care economy, it also contributed to making the situation worse as workers across the economy left for a range of reasons—unstable access to child care, deteriorating working conditions, health and mental health issues and the pursuit of less risky jobs.

As we think about the care economy we must make sure we solve problems not only for today but also for the next 30 years. While we clearly need to find and train more humans to solve the problem, we must also think very differently about the problem and innovate in a sector that has largely been operating the same way for decades.

There are several issues to consider and today we would like to highlight five. The first is this mismatch between demand and supply, not only today but looking into the future. There is no source of truth that we've been able to find provincially or nationally about the state of demand and supply in the care economy. As a result, immigration, skills training, etc., are not aligned to the marketplace's needs.

The second issue is related to outdated regulations and standards, if in fact they existed at all. There are various barriers to effectively deploying human capital across the care economy, such as suboptimal regulations and outdated standards of care and training.

The third issue we would highlight is the outdated models of care and lack of digital innovation in the care economy. The health and social care economy in our country has largely remained unchanged for decades. It has been slow and, at times, even reluctant to embrace technology, digital solutions and new models of care.

The fourth issue we would highlight is with respect to maybe a Canadian value and thinking of this in terms of respect and compensation. Canada's respect for the rights and dignity of children, marginalized populations and elders is somewhat understated, which contributes to a perception of work in the care economy as being “less than”. Compensation across the care economy is less than other specialized professions. For unskilled and low-skilled workers, working conditions, job security and wages are well-documented issues.

The fifth and last issue I'd highlight here is that of unpaid caregivers. This is a very important part of the care economy. We have an army of unpaid caregivers in our country—estimates of 8.1 million Canadians—juggling work, caregiving and so forth. In addition to the value unpaid caregivers provide to the health and social care economy, we must recognize that there's actually a cost to our economy, which is estimated to be about $1.3 billion in lost productivity.

Deloitte's research and internal experts have identified several areas where the government and businesses could take action to create a more sustainable and resilient care economy. The first is to develop a national human resource or pan-Canadian human resource strategy for care workers that would join up immigration, training and credentialing to create a more dynamic and coherent care economy.

The second recommendation is to modernize the care economy. This includes modernizing regulations, standards of care, training, benefits for workers in the gig economy and so forth.

Related to modernizing the care economy, the third recommendation is to embrace digital solutions in this care economy to free up existing resources, accelerate adoption of virtual care technologies and ensure providers and consumers have skills to engage with these digital programs and services.

The fourth recommendation is to introduce programs to support this army of unpaid caregivers providing benefits to the health and social care economy.

Then the last recommendation is to continue to support Canada's early learning and child care systems to allow for greater and more equitable labour force participation. The COVID pandemic has not only had a massive impact on the Canadian economy and society but has also laid bare weaknesses that existed prior to the health and social care crisis. This is particularly true of the care economy. The pressures on these sectors, the experience at long-term care homes and the criticality of access to child care for labour participation have all become strongly evident.

The opportunity in front of us is to embrace the care economy as a critical part of the Canadian economy and to view the work as important and valued, while at the same time introducing innovations that will build in resiliency and efficiency to benefit workers, employers, Canadians and the economy.

Craig and I look forward to answering any questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Black.

We go now to Ms. Saula for five minutes.

[Ivana Saula, Research Director for Canada, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, honoured members of the committee. My name is Ivana Saula. I am a research director for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. On behalf of the IAM and our members, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to present our views on this important topic.

The IAM represents workers in a wide range of industries with a growing footprint in health care. The majority of our members in health care are personal support workers, nurses and ambulance drivers working in various facilities across Ontario and Alberta, where attacks on the public sector and on health care in particular have been especially aggressive.

On March 3, 2022, this committee touched on the possibility of automation in response to labour shortages, so I will draw on conclusions from our report on automation and artificial intelligence, “Charting Change”, and point to a useful case study. I'll also briefly comment on the government's and employers' roles in inducing these labour shortages, particularly in health care.

Employers in particular have made precarious employment and non-standard employment—which on the whole erode working conditions—the norm rather than the exception as a feature of the labour market. An employment model that arose out of convenience for employers has eroded working conditions across sectors and has eroded living standards for millions of Canadians.

Personal support workers often work for multiple employers in order to get enough hours to earn a living. This means that one employer can guarantee four hours per week, another 12 hours and a third 10 hours. Wages of personal support workers vary across Canada, with the starting wage in some provinces being as low as $12 an hour. The work of PSWs and all health care workers is also characterized by physically demanding labour, workplace violence, high turnover and high rates of burnout. Not only is the work undervalued, but the framework for employment promotes instability.

In some cases, PSWs work for private companies that earned record profits during the pandemic, but they continue to drive wages and other benefits down. Copious numbers of studies yield the same result on this topic: Compared to workers in standard employment, those with non-standard jobs tend to have lower wages, lower job tenure, higher poverty rates, less education and fewer workplace benefits, such as pensions. Similarly, poverty rates of workers in non-standard employment are two to three times higher than the poverty rates of workers in standard employment. Clearly, this framework of precarious and non-standard employment is one of the key issues affecting recruitment into this field.

Demand for care work in health care is expected to continue increasing, and according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, personal support workers and home care workers are expected to be two of the fastest-growing occupations over the next 10 years. If these jobs are in demand and proven to be critical to our economy, why are workers in this sector not adequately compensated? Our members find this work meaningful and are proud of what they do. It's not the work itself that makes recruitment difficult; rather, recruitment is challenging because of low wages and lack of recognition.

I point now to a case study in Japan, a country that has severe issues with labour shortages in the health care system. Labour shortages are especially acute in retirement homes and in long-term care, where the elderly are looking after the elderly. Japan's response to this issue has been automation, making Japan's use of robots the fourth-highest in the world. The use of exoskeletons and interactive robots and the piloting of culturally sensitive robots are becoming the norm, as the country anticipates severe labour shortages coupled with growing demand for workers in long-term care.

Given the immediate need for labour, it seems that an understanding of the impact of automation on quality of care has not been sufficiently studied. In North America, vast amounts of resources are funnelled into studying and developing devices that replace the need for human assistance, such as automated health assessment systems, in-home monitoring systems, smart assistive walking devices and biosensors, just to name a few. These technologies would directly impact personal support workers, health care aides and other ancillary staff. The technological developments in health care go beyond assistive devices, and there are a number of things in the pilot stage right now.

While it's possible to address the gap in labour, it's necessary to assess technology fully. We have yet to fully understand the impact that technology and digital platforms have on the quality of care and the quality of life of elderly and aging clients. Technology may be convenient, but we should not turn to it as a solution without a full understanding of its impact on the health care system, patients and clients.

Our broad recommendations are the following. First, both federal and provincial governments should reform labour laws to provide protections for those in non-standard and precarious employment. We're also looking for protection for workers to join a union and for changes to union certification to match today's labour markets. We're looking to curb the proliferation of non-standard employment. We're also hoping that governments will work among different levels to promote living wages, rather than just minimum wage.

We're also hoping that there can be a thorough study of emerging trends and technologies for use in long-term care. Broadly and ambitiously speaking, we're hoping that long-term care could be included as part of the Canada Health Act.

We also support a national strategy for health human resources in health care, and last but not least, for national standards for long-term care.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Saula.

I believe Mr. Rossi is going to speak for the Ontario Chamber of Commerce.

[Rocco Rossi, President and Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Chamber of Commerce]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are delighted to be here.

While we meet in cyberspace, I want to acknowledge off the top that I come to you from the traditional territories of the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishinabe, the Haudenosaunee, the Chippewa and the Wendat peoples. Of course, we're all in different parts of Turtle Island, where the lands and waters have been stewarded by first nations, Inuit and Métis people for generations. The single best way we can thank them for that is to truly redouble our efforts on the path towards truth and reconciliation.

The Ontario Chamber of Commerce, my colleagues and I represent some 157 chambers and boards of trade across the province of Ontario, which in turn represent some 60,000 businesses and organizations, which include organizations like the Ontario Medical Association, various hospitals and different organizations in the care economy.

I want to kick off, though, by underscoring that the labour shortage issue permeates the economy as a whole. While certainly accentuated during the COVID crisis, it is something that we've been consistently tracking with our members in our annual surveys. Our latest survey, which was done for this year's “Ontario Economic Report”, underscored that some 62% of members are facing serious labour shortages, and that is across all sectors.

One area we're focused on in particular is ensuring that traditionally under-represented groups, particularly in the area of disabilities, are approached with very targeted supports and training to ensure that, at a time when we are desperate for labour, no talent and no potential is left behind.

In focusing on those elements that are specific to the federal government, we have to start with immigration. Clearly these last two years have been an enormous challenge to process. We note that as of December 2021, there were over 1.8 million applications in the queue. Particularly in the area of skilled labour, we're seeing a massive backlog that has to be focused on if we're going to attack this problem.

There are other issues specific for Ontario within the larger immigration question. Number one, we would very much like to see Ontario's allocation of immigrants, under the Ontario immigrant nominee program, increase from the current 9,000 to a minimum of 18,000, and quite frankly, that number could be much higher. We call upon the federal government to work with the Ontario government to eliminate the current requirement for labour market impact assessments for OINP participants, particularly those hired in communities with populations under 200,000, where it is far more challenging for employers to attract and retain the workers they need to fill labour shortages.

We recommend expanding Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada's ability to process express entry for federal skilled worker applications domestically and abroad, as well as to process international student study permits and visas at Canadian mission offices, and recommend working with the Ontario government to develop a long-term northern and rural Ontario immigration strategy to ensure communities can attract and retain immigrants.

We recommend continuing to modernize and address administrative burdens within the temporary foreign worker program. We were encouraged to see the federal government recently announce its foreign worker program workforce solutions road map, but we need to be moving, not just looking at the road map.

As well, we recommend reviewing the national occupation classification codes to create opportunities for permanent residence for labourers and operators.

There are still enormous barriers to interprovincial labour mobility that make absolutely no sense in an increasingly competitive world, a world where labour is at such a premium and not necessarily in the right places. This has been exacerbated by inconsistent certification, training standards and acceptance of credentials across the country.

As we chart our road to recovery, the Government of Canada must develop a strategy to boost long-term economic growth by further accelerating efforts to remove barriers to interprovincial labour mobility. One thing that we could do is create a public repository of information about labour mobility barriers in Canada to help policy-makers prioritize those efforts and strengthen the case for reform.

The support of health care—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Excuse me. We've gone over time.

[Rocco Rossi]

I'd be happy to take questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

For any point that you'd like to further expand on, you can do it in the question round. I understand as well that you have to leave early, but there are two members of the chamber who will stay for questions.

[Rocco Rossi]

They're far more talented and bright.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Rossi and witnesses.

We'll now begin our first round of questioning with Mrs. Kusie for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much to all the witnesses for joining us here today.

Ms. Black, you recommended that government should complement the social security system with enhanced retraining and re-skilling supports such as a scaled-up and enhanced Canada training benefit and Canada training credit to help the workforce upskill and pivot to their next jobs. In a recent report, you talked quite extensively about the necessity for Canadian workers to have the right skills.

With the recent budget announcements, we saw some funding allocated but no real specifics. How would you want the Canada training benefit enhanced?

[Georgina Black]

Thank you.

In one of the recommendations I shared with you today, we talked about joining up an understanding of the market demand with labour market needs, ensuring that we skill people up to meet the needs with government and with private clients.

One of the things that we hear across Deloitte all of the time, and Mr. Rossi mentioned it, is the challenge in finding labour with the right skills. The recommendation would be to join up what we know the market needs and for government and business to work together to train Canadians up to be able to contribute to the economy.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Ms. Saula, you mentioned labour laws extensively. What kind of regulatory framework do you think is needed for the increase in AI and automation as industries grapple with labour shortages? In your answer, you can expand that beyond the framework around labour laws.

What regulatory framework would you suggest in general for an increase in AI and automation as industries use this as a solution for the severe labour shortage we're facing?

[Ivana Saula]

Thank you for that question.

I'm not sure that I'm necessarily making an argument that we bridge the gap with technology when it comes to labour shortages right across the economy, but I think what's necessary to understand is that there are possibilities, certainly with artificial intelligence, where we can replace workers in a number of industries and some really surprising ones too.

What's essential before we move down that road is to really have a firm understanding of where the use of automation is appropriate. It's not just where does it harm workers, but where does it just not make economic sense to deploy at this point? Essentially what we're asking for as an organization is for the federal government to undertake a study of artificial intelligence and the possibilities that exist for various sectors, where it makes sense and where it doesn't make sense.

In terms of regulatory reforms, we're looking at specific sector reforms rather than just a broad approach in terms of protecting workers or enabling businesses to deploy technology.

I don't have a direct answer to your question in terms of regulatory reforms but we're looking at specific sectors to develop their own.

One of the examples that we have been looking to as a progressive template is the Port of Seattle. They've developed a code of ethics for the use of biometrics and the different types of technologies that are being used across airports, not just in Canada and the U.S. but globally. Essentially that code of ethics applies to anybody operating in the aerodrome. It's not just a code of ethics in terms of how employers or how the airport authorities anticipate it to behave, but it really spells out roles and responsibilities in terms of how the technology is handled and how it impacts upon passengers, workers and airline carriers. It asks some of the broader questions.

When we talk about reforms I think it's important to look at them from the perspective of sectors but also to develop something that works, something that's not just an impediment for employers to implement the technology, because it may be necessary. We want a full understanding, but we also want some assurances that there's no harm that comes out of these technologies.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Rossi, you talked about extensive government failures when it comes to addressing this labour shortage we're facing right now. You talked about a lack of good legislation for provincial labour mobility. Everyone knows about the horrific backlogs we have seen under the current government, as well as this government's lack of ability to finally solve the credentials problem.

I would like you to take the last minute I have, please, to expand upon these problems and, most importantly, your solutions for how we can resolve these significant, numerous problems you have mentioned.

[Rocco Rossi]

With respect to the interprovincial issues, I want to stress that this is not solely the product of the federal government. There is plenty of responsibility to be shared by provincial governments that choose to have different standards for a variety of reasons that, quite frankly, make less and less sense in today's world.

Very clearly, what happened to the ability to process in person over the course of the last two years has set back a lot of the work on immigration. If you're looking to prioritize where you invest and where you get your resources, getting that backlog cleared by focusing resources now is going to be as powerful as, if not more powerful than, many other steps that the government could take.

What we would argue is that there are prioritization opportunities. There is co-operation required on the part of provincial governments, together with the federal government, but we would note that, in the early nineties, Quebec was given far greater powers over immigration. This was primarily for cultural reasons. I would argue that all of the provinces, certainly my own province of Ontario, have clear economic reasons for having greater powers in this area.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Rossi.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Kusie.

Ms. Martinez Ferrada, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Saula, of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

In your opening remarks, you referred a lot to the care economy. But I'd like to hear you speak about the challenge of labour shortages not only now, but also in the longer term. How do you think we can work on recruitment, training and succession planning, specifically in the aerospace sector? If we're not able to have a pool of students who will take over the field, what will the impact be on the labour shortage?

[Ivana Saula]

Thank you for that question. It's a very good question, because we also put out a report on labour shortages in the aerospace and aviation industry.

Succession is something that, through the union and the collective agreement in some of the aerospace plants, has been a common practice. The union has negotiated with employers that are anticipating labour shortages in their region for workers who are near retirement to either stay on longer, on a shorter work week—two or three days per week—and come in and mentor younger workers who are coming in, or bring them back post-retirement on a modified work schedule to work with those who are in the plant. We think that this model works quite well, because it passes on that institutional knowledge and it passes on that hands-on experience that sometimes young workers might not get out of their training programs.

Succession, in the way that it has been informally set up through collective agreements, has been quite successful. It's something that's working, both for our retired members and new workers who are entering the workplace.

We have gone specifically to the Province of Quebec with this model and tried to get some input and some buy-in into the process. I don't know how far we have gotten with that as we speak, but I know that the Province of Quebec has been an ally for the IAM in Quebec in pushing the aerospace agenda forward.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Saula. If it's possible, please do send the report on aerospace that you mentioned to the clerk. It will certainly interest the members of the committee.

My second question is probably more for you, Mr. Rossi, since you raised the issue of immigration. You mentioned the Quebec immigration agreement, and it is, indeed, the only province with an agreement of that kind. However, some Quebec businesspeople will tell you that even with a special agreement in place, there's a labour shortage and an immigration problem in general.

When it comes to the care economy, how can we use immigration to address the labour shortage?