Human Resources Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[A voice]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I will now go to Mr. Coteau for six minutes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much to both of you for being here.

This is an important study we're doing to better understand how to best position government to work with community leaders like you, and Black Canadians across the country. I want to say thank you for the work you're doing and the leadership you're taking.

I'll start off with Mr. Haji.

I'm familiar with the programs on the east coast and Ontario. We do have programs, even provincially, in Ontario that specifically go to Black-led organizations that are specifically serving the Black community.

Out west, prior to this program and this initiative, was there anything that existed?

[Sharif Haji]

To my knowledge, the terms “Black-led organization”, “Black-focused organization” or “Black-serving organization" were not familiar in the west until this initiative.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Wow.

[Sharif Haji]

This is something that started post-George Floyd, as well as the start of this initiative. We are now having a conversation with our foundations on the ground, like the United Way, speaking about the municipalities, speaking about Black-focused and Black-led organizations.

It has been a change of narrative from this side of the country as far as the focus of allocation of resources to Black populations is concerned.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

What has the relationship been like with your partners across the country, as one of the four lead groups? What has that relationship been like across the country in regard to working together, learning from other regions and contributing to their growth as well?

[Sharif Haji]

It has been an advantage for us. As an organization that joined with intermediaries that have already done one call for proposals, it was a very good collaboration in terms of learning, sharing experiences and learning how they had run the first call for proposals. It made our work quite easy to run the second call for proposals and then implement it in that way.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

The last question is to you, sir.

There will be critics out there who say, “Why do you need to do this? Why can't you just have organizations apply to the larger fund?” What would your answer be to anyone, out in Alberta, for example, out west, who just says to apply to the regular fund? What is the difference between what we're doing here and what has happened in the past?

[Sharif Haji]

We have not sought out becoming an intermediary or playing as a fiscal agent for a number of funders, whether it's the provincial government here or the foundations here. They came to us and said, “You are delivering this initiative, and we think this is an opportunity that we can leverage.” That is how we have utilized it.

Another thing that I want the committee to know is that on the western side, Alberta has the third-largest Black population and the fastest-growing Black population in the country. It has the youngest Black population in the country. There are quite a number of complexities that come under this. This informs how Black grassroots organizations and groups establish and organize themselves, wanting to respond and provide services for those nuances of complexity for new immigrants.

It's quite different from the eastern side of the country, because of that. Established social connections and social capital exist there, which don't exist in the west.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much for the work you're doing out west. I'm sure the work you're doing there will benefit us here in Ontario as well.

Mr. Salmon, thank you for being here. I'm aware of the work that you've been doing over the years in education and in building the Black community overall—professionalism and best practices. You talked a bit about how the funding helped your organization accelerate its ability to transform. I think you mentioned getting charitable or not-for-profit status.

How much time is an initiative like this saving you in the long term? Are we talking about years of acceleration to get to where you need to be? Is this speeding up the process of your doing even better work for, essentially, young Canadians?

[Warren Salmon]

Thank you for the invite and for the questions.

Yes, definitely, the financial resources will really help accelerate things by a few years, I think. Otherwise, because we're a non-profit, we haven't received a lot of funding. We're generating funding through our initiatives, so this really helps to move us forward, I would say, by a few years. It really better positions us to serve our students, our teachers and our families in Ontario.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

At the end of the day, the most important message here is that under regular circumstances, it would be very difficult for organizations that may be the same size as yours, very grassroots and community-based. On community support, I know a lot of the resources come out of the volunteers who work for you to get things done. The big message here is that we have literally hundreds of new organizations that are tapping into federal resources to deliver programs to communities.

We heard last week from one of our witnesses that out of all the foundations in Canada combined, for every $100 that's spent, about 7¢ goes to support Black community and Black-led organizations. To me, that's just a shame. There's a lot more we could be doing to build if the right resources were there. I would suggest that there's a systemic piece at play if that's the situation.

I think my time is up. Mr. Chair, is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Your time is up, Mr. Coteau.

If either witness wants to comment on your comment, they can do it in their answers.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witnesses for their commitment and their work.

Mr. Haji, you say that your centre was selected as an intermediary organization in the second call for proposals. That certainly met a need.

You also say that 130 organizations met the funding criteria, but you only selected 68. Was it the lack of finances that prevented you from retaining the others?

[Sharif Haji]

Thank you very much. That's a good question.

Yes, it was basically a lack of finances for us to provide for those 54 we have not funded yet. It's deferred at least until.... They didn't get any funding.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

My other question is for both Mr. Haji and Mr. Salmon.

Since the beginning of the study, I have noted that the supporting Black Canadian communities initiative has generally been beneficial and has met the needs. However, we know that it will soon expire.

What do you see happening in the next few years? In addition, what good and not so good things can be learned from the program? Indeed, there have certainly been some pitfalls as well.

Mr. Haji, you may begin.

[Sharif Haji]

Sustainability is something that we talked about quite a lot. This is one way of building the capacity, but sustaining the gains that have been made.... From my perspective, it will be a loss if we stop this program in 2024 on the dot without having a transition plan, moving forward. That could include leveraging other opportunities that exist and building the fundraising capabilities of some of those organizations. What is some of the other funding, the corporate funding, municipal funding and provincial dollars that exist? How does that transition into that level?

We've seen some signs at our end in the last year, but it requires time for that transition to occur and for that transition to successfully happen. It would be prudent for the government to keep this in mind and work with the intermediaries to ensure a sustainable transition plan.

[Warren Salmon]

Okay, I'd like to say that sustainability is definitely an ongoing concern. In looking at the organizations that have tapped into the funding, we see that there is definitely a lot of proof to support that it works, but the big concern is how long the funding will be around. Will it survive transitions of power and stuff, and what's the plan to really make it sustainable over a long run?

It's great that it's here now, but this definitely is a concern. I think there needs to be a commitment to making it sustainable regardless of who's in power and just over a long period of time.

Those are some of my thoughts.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Salmon. In other files, there is also talk of transition plans. So I think it's a matter of consolidating what you've started.

Mr. Haji, I am addressing you in your capacity as representative of one of the four intermediary organizations. Between now and the end of the initiative, have you planned, or is there a plan in the program, for a discussion between the four intermediaries and the government, whichever government it may be, on the strengths and weaknesses of the program?

[Sharif Haji]

We talked about strategic planning in terms of moving forward and what the next steps are. We also talked about the stories of what happened. The funded organizations' evaluations are just taking place. We haven't concluded them. We expect that there will be lessons learned from those evaluations, and that will be some of what will be informing our moving forward. However, it is very early in the initial discussions. We haven't solidified a road map for a transition plan yet, but the conversation has started around having strategic discussions in terms of moving forward in a way that is informed by the learning that we gather from the existing funded organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot and Mr. Haji.

To conclude, we have Ms. Zarrillo for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to just get right into it because we have a short time. I want to follow up on what Madame Chabot was talking about.

We did have a big announcement today around the endowment fund. There has been a lot of talk about sustainability. Has the intermediary model been kept in place for this endowment fund, and will it be able to work with the current infrastructure that has already been built and that we know is working to expand the scope and get more partners involved? Is there talk about this transition to the endowment fund?

[Sharif Haji]

I will concur with my other colleagues earlier in the call in terms of the importance of the announcement that was made today, but, to my knowledge, I don't think it was built on the continuity of the work that the intermediaries have been doing. It's built in a way that is like a regular RFP. That's my understanding. I don't know how the two will tie in.

My colleague, amanuel, mentioned in the earlier call that there are quite a number of dots that need to be tied together to make sure that the impact or the investment that is being made in Black communities in Canada is sustainable over the long term.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Great.

Mr. Salmon, I wonder if you would have a comment on that.

Also, you mentioned this movement from a non-profit to a charity. If the endowment fund ends up being a transition vehicle, what barriers or challenges might you see for the size of the organizations that, potentially, you work with that maybe can't move either to non-profit status or even to charity status? How can they be supported?