That's very good.
If I run out of time on this next question—this next question is a hard one—I invite both of you to submit any of your comments in writing.
When we're trying to change a culture and we're trying to get to a position of equity among people in Canada, normally culture change involves what they call “antecedents of behaviour”, where you have positive incentives to try to drive right behaviours or right attitudes. We have funding for resources and education and things like that, which are positive things. However, you should also have some negative consequences that discourage wrong behaviours or wrong attitudes, and we don't really have much of that here.
It's very important how you measure your progress. Today we're measuring things like the amount of dollars of funding and the number of training courses and things like that.
What should we be measuring? Are there carrots and sticks, positive and negative things, that we should be putting into place to help accelerate our path to equity?