Human Resources Committee on Oct. 5th, 2022

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to make a comment, and I would go even further than what my colleague said. Even parliamentarians, who all do constituency work, aren't aware that this initiative and the new philanthropic fund exist. I knew very little about them. However, there are several groups that can act as ambassadors and promote these programs. We also asked the witnesses representing the intermediary groups about this.

The intermediary groups were chosen for certain reasons, specifically for their capacities for example, but there are nevertheless some limits. As we know, non-profit organizations generally have more than one mission. They often hope to secure funding for their independent mission, which is totally fine. However, some kind of outreach mechanism must be considered so the program can be publicized, especially if there are other priorities that need to be addressed in the future. Ignorance is no excuse. We are talking about pretty important programs that deserve to have a higher profile.

Now I'd like to ask a question. Organizations certainly have to meet a multitude of criteria to qualify for funding, but have the needs been properly assessed? I realize that targets have been set, but where are the greatest needs in terms of funding? Is it capacity building or something else to support the community? I'm not sure if my question is clear. What specific needs are you hearing about from these groups?

[Karen Hall]

Thank you for the question.

We launched the initiative in 2019 following discussions with the communities, from whom we learned a lot.

Ms. Charles, could you summarize those discussions and the needs?

[Sandra Charles]

Yes, I'd be happy to.

In discussions with Black communities, they sent a clear message that they still have enormous needs, not only in terms of funding, but also all the work that needs to be done in the area of social inclusion, as we mentioned, and to tackle racism.

What we're hearing from the communities is consistent with what you heard from the witnesses who appeared. We're hearing a great deal about the need to create more partnerships, connect more networks and develop the ecosystem so that it generates positive spin-offs across Canada.

We're also hearing a lot about organizations' operating budgets and their desire to expand their programs. All of these organizations provide extraordinary programs to the community, whether in the area of education, food security or welcoming newcomers. These people are frontline workers for many of these efforts, and they see what's happening on the ground, so they want to do more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Charles and Madame Chabot.

We will now go to Ms. Zarillo for two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We heard again today that the need is great. I want to just revisit something Ms. Alexander said about the eight-month window for grants to get out the door.

I have two questions. First, how can the government speed up the disbursement of these grants, or can they at least say that a project has been approved in a more timely manner so that plans can be made for that eight-month window? Second, how will Employment and Social Development Canada be using the unspent funds that were allocated in 2021-22?

[Katie Alexander]

I'll answer your first question.

I think what we're learning from lots of these calls for proposals is the need to be more transparent with how long some of these processes take. We do, in the publishing of our applicant material, try to manage expectations about when the funding will be approved and when we expect projects will begin. From the start, we're really trying to change and be a bit more client-centred, making sure that we're managing expectations as an applicant applies to the program.

When there are delays, which do happen at times, we're also proactive in making sure that we contact applicants. If we're expecting a delay that is out of the ordinary, we are taking measures to contact applicants to let them know that timelines will be adjusted.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'll go to Ms. Hall on the question about the unspent funds that were allocated in 2021-22.

[Karen Hall]

I'll just ask for clarification.

Budget 2022 has allocated funding for this fiscal year and the next. I'll just say that planning is under way to ensure that funding is spent in this fiscal year and the next.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Do you anticipate that it will all get spent, just because there are so many requests?

[Karen Hall]

The intention would be to fully disburse the funding. We know the needs are high and the calls that the intermediaries held were oversubscribed. We know there is demand, and work is under way to determine the way forward there. I anticipate there will be more information available in due course.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

To conclude the first hour, which is our last one with witnesses, I'll go to the official opposition for roughly two and a half minutes, and then to the government side for two and a half minutes, if that's agreeable to the committee. There is agreement.

Madam Gladu, I take it you're taking that section.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to confirm for my partner here—remember you had the average and he wanted the range of funding—that you'll table that for the committee. That's perfect.

Just to let you know, we did hear testimony that the use of an intermediary that is familiar with the communities is a really good deal. People think this is helping to make sure that funding opportunities are identified and they can get a bit of help applying to the fund.

One of the pillars you talked about was systems change. We have heard the need for the targeted funding, education, a bunch of different initiatives and incentives to address the systemic discrimination that goes on. What kind of systems change is being done as part of that pillar?

[Karen Hall]

I can speak to a couple of initiatives, and then I'll turn to Sandra for a bit more on that.

Included in that pillar are two initiatives that are under way. The first one is the external reference group, which is intended to be a long-term advisory body that will provide advice to the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development. That will be an ongoing source of insight, advice and reflection for the department going forward when designing programming and funding processes, and really for any other matter that touches those areas. A call for applications has been put out, the selection is under way and more information will be available in due course on the group.

The second initiative is the national institute for people of African descent. The intention there is to provide funding for an independent institute that will serve a similar function more broadly. The institute would be able to provide advice, undertake research, procure information and provide an external source of insight and advice for government, but also more broadly in a permanent fashion as an institute in and of itself.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That's your time, Madam Gladu.

We'll now go to the government side with Mr. Coteau.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much.

Over the last couple of years, as the program has been built and there have been more recipients, have you noticed as a department some emerging trends for other needs that may not be part of the initial three pillars, things that are presenting themselves that you're thinking about as a department?

[Karen Hall]

Certainly, as the initiative has rolled out, we have greatly benefited from the connections and insights provided by the intermediaries, but also through our contacts with the organizations. The things Katie has spoken of regarding our internal processes and a more client-centric approach have been very helpful.

More broadly, in terms of our programming, I would highlight the investment readiness program, which is part of the social finance fund. That also falls within our branch as officials. Included in that program is a $1.5-million set of funding, specifically administered by the Foundation For Black Communities, for Black social purpose organizations to help them with their readiness to participate in social finance and that broader ecosystem. The needs there were brought home to us through the work we've done through SBCCI, so yes, we are seeing those broader impacts.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Have you done any type of analysis of pre-existing programs that Black-led organizations may have applied to in order to see if there has been a decrease in funding through more long-term, permanent funding sources versus the newer initiatives? Has there been any analysis of intake outside of the programs that are specifically designed for Black-led organizations in regard to an increase or a decrease in other programs?

[Karen Hall]

As the program is still in its early days, we are beginning to see meaningful results. We have not yet taken the opportunity to do that research. Going into the future, I think those impacts will begin to become evident and we'll have more data there.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

What we've seen in other jurisdictions is that sometimes when specialized programs are created, you start to see a shift internally to push organizations specifically to that program. Sometimes it can have the reverse effect of taking away the ability for organizations to tap into the more traditional long-term funding lines that exist. If you are collecting data, it's a nice thing to be aware of and to be conscious of to ensure that you don't have a collapse of interest outside of these specific programs. These programs should be complements to larger funding lines as well. That's more of a comment than a question.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm finished.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Coteau.

[Karen Hall]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I have a quick response to that.

Thank you for the comment and feedback. The programs are absolutely intended to be additional to existing programming, but that is something we will be watching for in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Coteau.

Thank you to the witnesses from the department for appearing today and providing these answers.

This concludes the first hour.

Madam Zarrillo, are you signalling me?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I am signalling you, Mr. Chair. I had a motion that I wanted to bring to the floor. Do you want me to bring it up after we come back from the suspension?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes, please. I will recognize you when we resume.