Human Resources Committee on Oct. 19th, 2022

[Benoit Cadieux]

I would say that fiscal year was a bit of a different type of year, given the pandemic, so the data is, perhaps, not reflective of a normal year. In previous years, that percentage was slightly higher. For example, I believe it was 36% in 2019-20. Now, in 2020-21, it's 33%.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Nandy or Mr. Cadieux, can you speak to what analysis the department has conducted that supports the increase in the maximum number of weeks of EI sickness to 26? What analysis did you do?

[Benoit Cadieux]

To inform the extension to 26 weeks, certainly we looked at things like the results from the evaluation of EI sickness benefits. We looked at consultations and feedback received from stakeholders and at recommendations made by them. We've looked at the annual data on the usage of EI sickness benefits as well to make a recommendation.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Has the department compared the potential impact of 26 weeks compared to 50-52 weeks? Have you done an analysis on that?

[Benoit Cadieux]

Could you clarify what you mean by the “impact”?

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I mean the financial impact.

[Benoit Cadieux]

Yes. The Parliamentary Budget Officer did an estimate and estimated that an extension to 52 weeks would cost approximately $1.9 billion per year ongoing. This compares roughly to $1 billion for an extension to 26 weeks.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

A lot of illnesses, I guess, could be classified as somewhat intermittent. For example, I don't hide it, but when I was in my twenties and thirties, which was a hundred years ago, I suffered greatly from panic attacks and anxiety. I obviously didn't have them continually; I would have them in periods.

Could you speak to the benefits of the 26-week program and how flexibility that would help somebody like me could be built into the system?

[Benoit Cadieux]

Sure. There are two ways the program provides some flexibility for those with episodic or intermittent illnesses. The first one is that claimants have the ability to work while on claim, while they're claiming EI sickness benefits. For any [Technical difficulty—Editor]. For example, a claimant can return to their job throughout the week, even though they're claiming benefits—for example, if they are looking to reintegrate slowly back into the workforce.

The second way is that those 26 weeks of the EI sickness benefits can be received over a 52-week benefit period. A claimant does not have to take all 26 weeks consecutively. If they are ready to start going back to work, they can go back to work for one week, take benefits a week later if they are unable to work and ease back into the workplace that way.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Ms. Nandy, can you comment on what the department's plans are to actually inform Canadians of these new measures?

[Anamika Mona Nandy]

Thank you for the question.

As I mentioned, there were the legislative amendments that were necessary to implement the change from 15 to 26 weeks. It was approved through budget 2021.

What they've also indicated is that there would be a coming into force date determined by the Governor in Council, so when that date is determined, there would be notification to Canadians as to the implementation of these benefits.

As we said, the plan is to have them implemented by the end of the year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you agree with me that some people need more than 15 or 26 weeks before they can return to work? They need to heal themselves in privacy before returning.

[Benoit Cadieux]

Thank you for your question.

As I mentioned earlier, it is important to bear in mind that there are other supports available to people who cannot return to work after receiving 26 weeks of benefits. For example, long-term benefits are available to many Canadian employees. This is an option for those who need more time to return to work.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You said earlier that 33% of people were receiving 15 weeks of benefits. They might have needed more, but they used up the number of weeks they were entitled to. Some may not have returned to the labour market. Let's not forget that there are humans behind the statistics.

My reading of the situation is different from yours. You say that other programs are available to those who have used the 26 weeks of benefits. There is talk of increasing special sickness benefits to 50 or 52 weeks, but you have to assume that not everyone will use them and that some people with episodic illnesses, such as multiple sclerosis, or more serious illnesses, need them. These people are paying into EI and hoping to get back to work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Who is going to answer?

Was that a question, Madame Chabot?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Statistics show that 33% of people use 15 weeks of benefits. What happens after that?

Surely not all of these people have returned to work. In some situations, there is nothing after 15 weeks. In Quebec, that means social assistance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Your time has concluded.

We will now go to Ms. Zarrillo for two and a half minutes.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have the floor.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to say that I appreciate Madame Chabot's passion today, because we've heard too many stories about people who have lost their homes, their life savings and family members. This is life-or-death for many people.

I want to go back to something that came out in the study, just around easier access to EI benefits: making it easier to apply, making the benefits more accessible, and even making it easier to access combined benefits because of successive life events.

I wonder, Mr. Cadieux, if you wouldn't mind sharing what modernization is coming by the end of the year around the ease of accessing benefits and whether it is going to become easier for everyone who needs to access those benefits.

[Benoit Cadieux]

Thank you for the question.

I would just say that the government has not yet announced its plan for the modernization of EI. This is something that will be announced later this year.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Now we're talking about how it's in the works to have an increase to 26 weeks by the end of the year. There will be no change in how those benefits are accessed, no change in ease of accessibility. There will be no change. Is that what you're saying?

[Anamika Mona Nandy]

Perhaps I could just jump in on that, if that's okay. I think what my colleague Mr. Cadieux was trying to say was that the change with regard to an increase in sickness benefits to 26 weeks is on track to be implemented by the end of the year.

In addition, the government has, as per its budget 2021 commitment to support reforms to the EI program, conducted extensive consultations over the past two years. Those consultations will inform further modernization of the program that would respond to what we heard during those consultations about the importance of having improvements in accessing the program and in the adequacy of EI benefits for workers, including those workers who experience successive life events.

That's part of the modernization, but, as Mr. Cadieux indicated, that work is ongoing to support reforms to the program, again, to be informed by all of what we heard during the consultations.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to close it out again on the gender lens. There is some discussion about some information from the Parliamentary Budget Officer. I would like to reiterate that I would like to know what the formula was for these estimates, specifically around the $1.9 billion.

Was there a gender lens applied? We know that women are more often in part-time employment and earn lower wages. I want to understand the formula that was used to come up with the estimates.

That's it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Does one of the witnesses want to answer?

[Benoit Cadieux]

This is a question we'll have to come back to the committee on. We'll have to consult with our parliamentary budget office colleagues.