Human Resources Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2022

[Jen Gammad]

Thank you for your question.

I would point back to my earlier comment about those among disabled women who live in the deepest poverty. There are many reports and a lot of data showing who are the most marginalized and who are living in the deepest poverty among this group.. Really put them at the forefront in leading this co-development process.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

All right.

I'm hearing from all the witnesses today about urgency. Hopefully, it won't take four years to get the regulations going.

Have there been conversations in your organizations, Ms. Morse, and then maybe Ms. Gammad, about an interim benefit that could help folks now with the rising costs of rent and the rising costs of food and that could make sure there's some security in the community while these regulations are being made?

[Alison Morse]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to respond.

We haven't had those discussions—because of the thought that families and children with disabilities are being excluded from this legislation—but I think the prospect of making an interim payment while you develop the system would be ideal. We know right now that a lot of people are really struggling. If they don't get help, as we heard earlier, they could end up with homelessness or they'll be needing more health care services, whether it's for their physical or mental health.

I think the interim benefit might be a good way to start, but part of the issue is that Canada is a very big country. What you can get for your dollar will vary from community to community and from province to province. In terms of some of that individualization that was spoken about for the individual client, I think there may have to be some sort of individualization on a provincial basis as to how the benefit interconnects with their existing programs.

That's not to say that any province would get more or less; there would just be consideration of the uniqueness of each of those autonomous organizations.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Great.

There's probably just enough time for Ms. Gammad to finish.

[Jen Gammad]

We haven't considered an interim benefit, but the urgency is there. The need is there for sure. The only thing I would caution against is getting stuck on this interim benefit and the CDB being delayed any further or not rolled out at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have 30 seconds, Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Are you concluding?

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes.

Thank you so much to the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

All right.

We have Ms. Gray for five minutes, please.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for being here today.

Before I get to my questions, I would like to move a motion that I have on notice. I will go through this quickly so that we can get back to our important witnesses right away. I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee invite the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion and relevant officials to appear before the committee for no less than two hours regarding the federal funding provided to the Community Media Advocacy Centre by the Government of Canada and the officials’ handling of the situation; that the meeting be televised; and that the meeting take place no later than November 10, 2022.

I'll make just a couple of points. To clarify, this would be during our constituency week next week. We have no meetings scheduled then, so it would not take away from any of the work that this committee is doing.

I'll note as well that during the heritage committee meeting on October 21, in testimony regarding the grant given to the CMAC, Minister Rodriguez said, “Minister Hussen is totally responsible for this program.”

We have new information that we need answers to. We need to hear from Minister Hussen quickly, given Laith Marouf's anti-Semitism and anti-French views.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gray.

This standing committee's powers come from Standing Order 108(1)(a), and I am bound by the Standing Orders of the House to the committee. It states that “Standing committees shall be severally empowered to examine and enquire into all such matters as may be referred to them by the House”. Standing Order 108(2) further states that standing committees are also “empowered to study and report on all matters relating to the mandate, management and operation of the department or departments of government which are assigned to them from time to time by the House.”

Specifically, as part of its mandate, the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities can study and report on the legislation, expenditure plans, program and policy objectives, and the mandate, management and operation of Employment and Social Development Canada.

While the motion seeks to invite the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion and relevant officials to appear before this committee regarding the federal funding provided to the Community Media Advocacy Centre, the Department of Canadian Heritage funded the Community Media Advocacy Centre. It is also my understanding, as you indicated, that the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage held a briefing to discuss the department's contract with the Community Media Advocacy Centre on Friday, October 7, 2022. While the minister's responsibilities include diversity and inclusion, the motion is outside of the mandate of the committee, as outlined in Standing Order 108, to study and report on the matters related to management and operations of the departments, agencies and Crown corporations for which it is assigned, and it is therefore out of order, Madam Gray. There is no debate. My decision has been made.

Ms. Gray, you can challenge my decision.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to challenge your decision.

Minister Hussen does report to this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That was outlined by the department. It is not assigned to the committee, and it was funded by another department.

I've made my ruling. Ms. Gray, you have challenged it.

Everybody has heard the order. The committee, as I indicated.... The ruling I made is in line with Standing Order 108(2) of the House of Commons committee. I must respect the orders given to this committee by the House of Commons, which are unanimously passed at this committee. Based on that, your motion is out of order.

Madam Clerk, call a vote on the chair's ruling. So that we're clear, clearly outline it to committee members.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Danielle Widmer]

The question is this: Shall the decision of the chair be sustained? If you're in agreement, you vote yes. If you're in disagreement, you vote no.

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The chair's ruling is upheld.

We have two minutes left of the committee's timeline.

Do we have unanimous consent to proceed to a question, or does the committee wish to adjourn?

We only have two minutes, but before we do.... If we move to extend, we will need unanimous consent.

I would like to get the budget approved for this study that is currently ongoing. All members of the committee were provided with the budget.

Do I have approval of the budget to do the study?

Every committee member has it. It's $29,775. Do we have agreement?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I see unanimous consent.

Go ahead, Mr. Aitchison.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

It's a process question, but I'm wondering why we start a study before we actually have a budget. In my world, we have a budget before we start. I've seen us approve budgets around this place after the study is over. How does that work? Why does it work that way?

[The Clerk]

We often get the witnesses' names during the course of it, so we amalgamate all of the witness names and figure out the regions they are in, but quite often the committee starts its study while we're still amalgamating the witness names. Then it takes time to prepare. We prepare as quickly as possible, but it's really dependent on when we receive the witnesses' names.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

It's still a weak system, but okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

What's the direction of the committee? We are at our two-hour timeline. Do we want to adjourn?

I see that the consensus of the committee is to adjourn. Thank you, witnesses, for appearing today on this important study.

The meeting is adjourned.