Human Resources Committee on Dec. 7th, 2022

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Just to reiterate, I know that everybody around this horseshoe wants to get this done, get it out and get it into the hands of people who need it as quickly as possible.

Again, when I read through this amendment by MP Zarrillo, really, every part of it to me has a major potential for delay. When we have people in such urgent need of this benefit, it's just something that I think is challenging for all of us.

Thank you for that. I just wanted to try to get clarity on that aspect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We'll have Madame Chabot briefly, and then we're getting beyond the hour.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The argument we are being given is that people need to receive the benefit as soon as possible, and we all want that, of course. In a democracy, part of the responsibility for the schedule and the order in which things are done falls to the government. The government has now decided to table the bill while we are studying it in committee. Before the bill even gets to our committee for study, a question has come up, and that is that the government is asking us, the parliamentarians, to trust it while we have a blank page in front of us. The government is saying that if the proposed regulation needs to be referred back to the House for the approval of parliamentarians, it will slow down the process and it will take longer to begin paying the benefit.

In a democracy, there is usually a process to be followed when making a regulation. The idea is not for us to make a regulation that would examine and re‑examine decisions that have already been taken. The government can deal with part of the regulatory process, and this generally pertains to the administrative side of things. It is nevertheless very unusual to decide that the implementation of a benefit or any other bill should be done strictly through regulations, without being adopted by the House.

We're being told that it could slow things down by three or four months and that we could end up with a shortened session of Parliament. I don't accept this excuse, however. There is no reason why we should not make members of Parliament aware of the regulation that will have been prepared, to ensure that the work being done complies with the principles in the bill that apply to things like revenue or methodology. What we are now debating is nevertheless a crucial measure for the future, and I believe that basically, parliamentarians are entitled to know about it. It may indeed delay the work somewhat. On the other hand, if everything proceeds apace and the regulation does not present any problems, it will go quickly. In our view, it's the least we can do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It is beyond the time, so to continue this meeting I need unanimous consent.

Ms. Gray is shaking her head.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I didn't have access to the interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Do we have unanimous consent to continue the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Before we go, Ms. Gray, do you have a point?

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For clarification, there were other members here shaking their heads as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes, I took notice.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I'd like to request that we have an additional meeting so that we can continue moving this bill on. I know that the clerk will have to to look into whether or not that's possible. However, so that we don't delay this legislation, I'd like to look at where we might be able to fit that in.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Go ahead, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Chair, I would suggest that we look at MP Gray's request after Monday's meeting to see where we're at. I have every—

[An hon. member]

I thought the meeting was over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

No, I didn't adjourn it.

Go ahead, Ms. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was thinking about before Monday's meeting. Rather than taking Monday's meeting and pushing off other business, I was referencing that we have a meeting prior to Monday in order to continue with this work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The clerk will check with services to see what's available. That's all we can do now, because we did not get unanimous consent to continue.

Thank you, committee members. The meeting is adjourned.