Evidence of meeting #53 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was disability.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean-François Tremblay  Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Karen Robertson  Chief Financial Officer and Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Atiq Rahman  Assistant Deputy Minister, Learning Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Michael MacPhee  Assistant Deputy Minister, Temporary Foreign Workers Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Andrew Brown  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)) Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Committee members, I will call the meeting back to order. We are now public.

Welcome to meeting number 53 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee will resume its study on the subject matter of supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23: vote 1b under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, and votes 1b and 5b under the Department of Employment and Social Development.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to make a few comments.

To get my attention and get on the speakers list, if you're in the room, please raise your hand. If you're meeting virtually, please use the “raise hand” icon. Please wait until I recognize you. We have a speaking order with designated times. For those appearing virtually and in the room you have the option of using the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available if you are using the Zoom camera.

In accordance with the routine motion, I am informing the committee that all the connection tests for all the witnesses who required them in advance have been completed. As well, as I indicated, if there's an interruption in the interpretation service, get my attention. For those members meeting virtually, unless you're using an approved House of Commons headset, you will not be recognized to participate verbally.

Appearing for this meeting is the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion. She has departmental staff with her. We have Jean-François Tremblay, Karen Robertson, Tammy Bélanger, Andrew Brown, Elisha Ram, Michael MacPhee and Atiq Rahman.

We'll begin with Minister Qualtrough for five minutes.

Minister, you have the floor.

4:30 p.m.

Delta B.C.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough LiberalMinister of Employment

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Hello, everyone. Good afternoon. It's good to be back at the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that I'm joining you from the traditional territory of the Tsawwassen and Musqueam first nations.

I was last before this committee to testify during your study of Bill C-22, which seeks to create, as you know, the Canada disability benefit. I thank you for your work and your efforts in helping to get Bill C-22 unanimously passed through third reading last week in the House of Commons.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I thought when we were using this hybrid model that we were supposed to be able to see the individual, and we can't see the minister.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

We've dealt with this before. We have an agreement that the minister would appear with her picture on the screen, because of a disability issue.

Continue, Madam Minister.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Thank you all.

I'm here today to talk about the supplementary estimates (B) for Employment and Social Development Canada, so let me jump right in.

My department is requesting a total of $411.4 million in additional authorities through these supplementary estimates. This includes $164.5 million in operating expenses, $225.7 million in grants and contributions, and $21.2 million in statutory expenditures.

I'll focus on a few of these initiatives in the interest of the committee's time.

Of course, I'll begin by talking about Canada's first-ever disability inclusion action plan, which we launched last October. The action plan is a road map to create a more inclusive Canada. It has four pillars, including financial security, employment, accessible and inclusive communities, and a modern approach to disability.

This is why we're requesting $13.6 million to implement early initiatives under the disability inclusion action plan, with $11.4 million going to the opportunities fund for persons with disabilities and $2.2 million to alternate format reading materials. This funding will help us make real progress on the objectives laid out within the disability inclusion action plan.

The temporary foreign worker program is another key area of focus for my department.

We are requesting $18.7 million to meet the growing demand for labour market impact studies. Demand is already high, and is expected to increase over the next few years. It is important that we invest now to increase our processing capacity, including hiring more staff, to ensure that employers across Canada can hire temporary foreign workers in a timely manner. The additional funding will allow Service Canada to provide employers with timely decisions in 2022‑23 and beyond.

This will complement changes begun in April 2022, including changes to labour market impact assessments, which are now valid for 18 months. That is a nine-month increase, as compared to the pre-pandemic six months. This is another measure that makes it easier for employers to get the help they need, when they need it.

We're also requesting $27.1 million to increase the reach of the temporary foreign worker program, particularly inspections. TFWs are vital to our economy. They make sure that we have healthy, locally grown produce, and they fill gaps in critical sectors like trucking and construction. They deserve to work in safe, healthy and dignified conditions.

Over the past year, we've improved inspection quality, timeliness and responsiveness. We also established a workload management strategy to reduce inspection backlogs, and we conducted outreach and engagement sessions with stakeholders. The additional funding will build upon these efforts and is part of our broader effort to rebuild the employer compliance regime.

My department is responsible for delivering a wide variety of services to Canadians, from employment insurance to LMIAs to public pensions and a huge variety of grants and contributions. We recognize that our IT systems need to be ready to get benefits to Canadians quickly and reliably. We are requesting $16.3 million through these estimates to ensure that our IT systems are able to continue delivering for Canadians when they're counting on us.

Canadians depended on us during the pandemic, so I'd like to speak about the Canada emergency response benefit integrity measures. When the pandemic hit, our government moved quickly to implement the CERB and other benefits.

In the beginning, we decided to go with an attestation-based approach. This approach was adopted by Parliament and supported by all parties. Eligibility verification is being done postpayment, and every single application has been reviewed. In cases where an individual has a balance owing, we methodically follow up in a compassionate, flexible manner. That work is ongoing, and to date we have recovered $1.3 billion.

All told, our individual COVID-19 benefit programs reached 13 million Canadians. We acted quickly to get recovery benefits into people's bank accounts without delay. Our approach kept workers connected to their jobs and positioned the economy to come roaring back.

To recover funds from individuals who have a balance owing, we are requesting $13.4 million to re-profile lapsed 2021-22 funding into 2022-23. This will help fund ongoing reviews to identify and address cases of error and misrepresentation with respect to COVID-related emergency benefits.

In closing, these and all the additional funds we're requesting are focused on helping Canadians and supporting our shared economic prosperity.

Thank you for this opportunity. I'm happy to take your questions.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Madam Minister.

We'll now begin with Mrs. Gray for six minutes.

You have the floor.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here with us today.

Minister, you touched on this, actually, in your opening remarks. The estimates mentioned integrity measures for CERB, so I want to start with that, with regard to the integrity of this within ESDC itself.

Last week a story broke that, within your department, 49 ESDC employees were fired by the department for taking CERB while they were still employed. Would that be correct, Minister?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

That's my understanding, but I'll get J.-F. to confirm, please.

4:35 p.m.

Jean-François Tremblay Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

That's correct.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Thank you.

When were you made aware that there was an investigation being done of potential CERB fraud by employees within your department?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

We specifically have let the public service handle all investigations with respect to any kind of issue related to CERB, whether it be fraud or error, specifically making sure and maintaining political distance, if you will, making sure that there's never any appearance of impropriety.

Of course, there are public servants who made these poor choices, and it is up to the department to take the lead on this.

J.-F., is there anything further from you?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Minister, if I could just ask.... Are you saying that you were not made aware that there was any investigation going on previous to the announcement or previous to finding out that there were employees who would be terminated? Were you aware that there was an investigation going on specifically of employees within your department?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

The level at which I was aware was that there were public servants who were being followed up with, not the specifics within my department or the precise number. It was generally that this was a category that was being investigated.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Okay, so you're saying that no one brought to your attention specifically that there were employees being investigated within your department.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Not at that level of detail, no.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Minister, when were you made aware of the results of this investigation, the discovery of fraudulent CERB claims within your department?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I was made aware the.... I want to make sure I get this date right. The day it broke, I was made aware.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Did someone inform you, or did you hear about it on the news for the first time? Did someone make you aware of the results?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

It was a conversation with my staff at my morning briefing.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Who informed you of this, Minister? Was it one of your staff?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I apologize. I don't remember the exact name of the person. I get briefed every morning on a myriad of issues and topics.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Of these individuals—the 49 ESDC employees who were terminated—what were their positions? Were any of them in a management role?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I'll defer to the deputy on this.

4:40 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Jean-François Tremblay

As far as I know, nobody was in a management role. We can look at it, if you like. It was misrepresentation, not fraud.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Okay.

Minister, as a follow-up to this, have you requested any information from your officials as to what positions these people may have had, and whether there was misrepresentation or fraud? Have you asked for a follow-up or report on this?