Human Resources Committee on Feb. 7th, 2023

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

My interest in this has been solely around the process, and I have been assured that appropriate processes were followed in the investigations and outcomes of these decisions.

I want to be clear that my involvement is very much on the process side: “Here's how something is going to happen, and here are the possible outcomes.” Again, it's certainly my practice to let these processes play out and make sure I know what they were.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Are investigations still ongoing? Could the number be larger than the 49 announced?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

It's best to confirm with J.-F. on that, with my deputy. I apologize.

[Jean-François Tremblay]

It's okay.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, if you're unclear, you obviously haven't asked for information to find out whether or not—

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Mrs. Gray, it's more that I'm waiting for these processes to play out. I think it wouldn't be appropriate to.... I'm not sure of the confidentiality, at this point, regarding anything that might be ongoing, so I'm hesitant. I don't know final outcomes, so I don't want to get involved in what—

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Are you saying you're unclear on whether there are further employee investigations within your department?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

No, I'm saying I'm unclear about the outcomes of any further investigations.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, your department officials told the public accounts committee, last week, that these cases were dealt with internally and not referred to any law enforcement. Does this mean the money from those former employees—what they claimed—will not be recovered by the CRA?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

My understanding is this would be a separate process, along with all the other CRA recovery processes.

J.-F., can you please confirm that?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

As we said last week, and as with any other Canadians who misrepresent themselves.... They will be treated like other Canadians, in terms of repayment.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, can you table, for this committee, the total number of employees who were investigated?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray. Your time has concluded.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Long, you have six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon to my colleagues.

Minister, good afternoon and thank you for coming before the committee again.

I will say that I've not seen, certainly in my years, a minister who's been so forthcoming, so transparent and so available to members of Parliament and certainly to our HUMA committee.

Minister, I'll start with this. When I started running, wanting to be an MP, I was doing a lot of door to door, and certainly one of the things that became very evident to me very quickly was the plight of two groups: seniors, number one, but more so, persons with disabilities. The stories that I would get at the doors, Minister, were heartbreaking. It's hard to believe that, in a country like Canada, there was a group that had been so ignored. Obviously, mental health issues are through the roof. Employment is bare minimum. Poverty is almost universal and accessibility....

Minister, I want to commend and compliment you on leading and bringing forth Bill C-81, the Accessible Canada Act, which is transformational legislation. I was proud to be part of that in my previous years with HUMA.

I want to switch to Bill C-22, and I'm obviously very happy that it just passed third reading in the House. It's now with the Senate, and I want to congratulate you again for your leadership on this.

I think we all know at this committee—and, certainly, there was basically unanimous support—that it's historic legislation. It's going to be a game-changer for persons living with disabilities right across the country and certainly in my riding of Saint John—Rothesay. I want to thank you for making sure that the disability community will be closely involved in the shaping of the framework of the benefit. Obviously, support and input from that community is of the utmost importance.

We've done a lot, but as you've always said, it's never enough, and we can always do more.

Having said what I've said, Minister, I'd like you to tell us what else you're doing and what else you're working on to improve the lives of persons living with disabilities. Thank you.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

Once again, thanks to this committee. All through the Accessible Canada Act journey and into the Canada disability benefit journey, you've been there and you've constantly worked together and made these laws, these bills, better.

There is lots going on in the disability space with the Government of Canada. Of course, I refer to the disability inclusion action plan and the four pillars there.

The first pillar is financial security. The big one is our Canada disability benefit legislation, which is now in the Senate, and I hope it passes as quickly and thoughtfully through that chamber as it did through ours.

The second pillar is employment. First, we're developing an employment strategy of $227 million, announced in last year's budget, a portion of which is requested in these supplementary estimates.

The third one is accessible and inclusive communities. That's really the barrier removal part of the equation with the Accessible Canada Act, the work that Accessibility Standards Canada is doing and the work through the enabling accessibility fund to make spaces more physically accessible. Then, of course, there's the communications work we're doing to make written materials more accessible and to overall improve accessibility, really focusing on barrier removal under that pillar.

Fourth is what we're calling a modern approach to government. This is the idea that Canadians deserve programs and eligibility processes and services that are disability friendly and disability inclusive. We're really taking a look across government to infuse a modern, dignified approach to disability so that everyone can get equitable access and service from their government.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Minister.

In a previous HUMA meeting, we had some witnesses in, Mark Wafer with Tim Hortons and Randy Lewis from Walgreens. They talked about how they've embraced persons with disabilities in the workplace, and they found that their reliability, lack of absenteeism and commitment to the team was such an untapped market.

Minister, I want to drill down on the disability inclusion business council. Obviously, it is a significant step towards prioritizing accessibility and disability inclusion in the workplace. Can you elaborate a little more on that, please?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Yes, it's really exciting. Under the employment pillar and within the employment strategy, we will have a specific focus on employers, building what one could call “disability confidence” within employers and really translating what is a pretty well-established business case for inclusion into actual practice.

We have appointed a national council, a group of business leaders from leading companies in Canada, to really put a business lens on what can be done to build this confidence and to encourage and support employers as they hire, retain, advance and promote people with disabilities. We're really hoping that the business-to-business language will translate into an uptake.

As we all talk about labour shortages incessantly in this country, this is an untapped labour pool that we really need to bring in from the sidelines, to remove the barriers that people are facing and allow the creativity and talent to be utilized in our economy, because we just can't afford to have anybody on the sidelines from an economic point of view. We're missing out from a prosperity point of view.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses as well as Madam Minister for being present for the consideration of supplementary estimates (B) 2022‑23.

I don't know if you're familiar with the “Search and Find” collections. They are beautiful and fun children's books where you search and find.

That's what I tried to do with the appropriations, that is, to look for what I could find related to employment insurance reform. Unfortunately, I didn't find anything.

If I didn't find anything, it's because there is nothing, and that's very disappointing.

Madam Minister, the Prime Minister gave you the mandate to present the framework for a reform of the employment insurance system in the summer of 2022. In fact, it is a commitment you made.

In January of this year, you even said in a Canadian media article that you were confident you could meet the deadline that you were given by the Prime Minister, in addition to establishing new rules and benefits.

Minister, what is the reason, even now and after two rounds of consultations, that comprehensive reform of the employment insurance system has still not happened, when the system is failing 60% of workers who lose their jobs and are left out in the cold?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for your question.

I can assure you that work to modernize the employment insurance system is ongoing. To be frank, I must tell you that we have not finished the plan, but we are continuing to develop it.

Actually, over the two years of consultation, economic circumstances have changed quite a bit.

When we started these consultations, we were in a period of significantly high unemployment, and we are now in a completely different economic space. That has highlighted the need to ensure that any modernization, any plan for the future, any road map for the future of employment insurance can take into account the flexibility required to deal with both high and low unemployment.

We know there are significant challenges within this program in terms of access to the program, and adequacy of the benefits and supports once you're in the program. That's what we continue to refine. I would say we are probably at a—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I am sorry to have to stop you, but you know we don't have much time.

The whole point of modernizing the employment insurance system was to ensure that it could deal with situations like the pandemic.

You mentioned the Canada emergency response benefit earlier. You had to invent an emergency measure from scratch to deal with the situation.

You and many of your colleagues have said that the employment insurance system is outdated, that the social safety net has a hole in it, that it can't meet the needs and that it needed to be modernized. After numerous consultations with labour groups and advocacy groups, we know what the solutions are. What are we waiting for to implement them?

The economic period that you are talking about today is precisely the time for a new reform that can give workers access. We have been through a period of crisis, and if nothing is done now, it will be chaos again if we go through an economic crisis or a period of recession.

Nothing explains the delays in modernizing the regime.

The fact that there are no commitments on this issue is very disappointing for all the groups we represent.

I will ask you one last question.

Is the government proud, and are you proud, as a minister, of an employment insurance system that covers about 40% of those who pay into it, discriminates against pregnant women who lose their jobs because of unfair eligibility and accounting rules, provides no weeks of benefits for adoptions, and offers some of the lowest benefit rates?

This, Minister, is what needs to be strengthened, and you have all the tools to do it.

Can you tell us when you will be tabling a plan for employment insurance reform?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I strongly agree that the employment insurance system needs to be modernized and reviewed.

We're going to do that and we're going to introduce the plan soon.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

When will this be done, Madam Minister?