Human Resources Committee on Feb. 10th, 2023

[The Clerk]

We will be making that request, so it will be dependent on that.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Do you want me to call a vote? I am sensing a consensus on the motion of Ms. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Chair, there is just one more thing, then.

If for some reason House resources will not allow for the extra 15 minutes, then I would like to ensure we have the minister back at a subsequent meeting in order to allow for that extra 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gray. That's at the control of the committee.

Do we have a consensus on confirming that the committee will request the resources to extend the first hour by 15 minutes to have Minister Gould finish her testimony on service standard renewal, which would involve one two-and-a-half-minute round to the Bloc, one two-and-a-half-minute round to the NDP, five minutes to the Conservatives and five minutes to the Liberals? I see agreement.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

With that, we will suspend the first hour of this meeting while we set up for the second one.

Thank you, Minister Gould. We are looking forward to seeing you again, as you always show up. Thank you.

Thank you, members.

We will suspend for a few minutes while we prepare for the second hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The clerk has informed me that we are ready to commence.

Welcome back. For the second part of the hour, the committee will resume its study of the subject matter of supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23, vote 1b under Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and votes 1b and 5b under Department of Employment and Social Development.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses who are appearing in the room as well as virtually.

You may choose to speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available. If you lose interpretation services, please get my attention by raising your hand. If you're appearing virtually, use the “raise hand” icon and we'll suspend while the problem is being corrected.

All comments must be addressed through me as chair, and wait until I recognize you before speaking.

As I indicated, this meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, virtually and in the room.

I would like to welcome Ms. Roberts and Ms. Larouche, two members who are joining the committee temporarily. Welcome to the committee.

As well, we have Minister Kamal Khera. Minister, welcome.

With you are departmental officials Jean-François Tremblay, deputy minister; Karen Robertson, chief financial officer and senior assistant deputy minister; Elisha Ram, senior assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch; Karen Hall, associate assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch; Nisa Tummon, assistant deputy minister, program operations branch; and Cliff C. Groen, business lead for benefits delivery modernization.

We will begin with Minister Khera for five minutes. Minister, you have the floor.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Minister of Seniors]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee members, it's good to see you all.

Before I begin, I’d like to acknowledge that I am joining this meeting from the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

I am pleased to be here with you today.

Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm joined here, of course, by the outstanding officials you just mentioned, Mr. Chair.

As you all know, committee members, supporting seniors has been and will always be a top priority for our government. We are working hard to respond to the diverse needs of Canada's fastest-growing age group.

Over the last year and a half, I have been very fortunate to be able to travel across the country and meet with seniors and stakeholders from coast to coast to coast. As a result of this extensive engagement, we have outlined the following priorities in improving the quality of life for older Canadians: financial security, particularly during a time when global inflation makes affordability a challenge; aging at home comfortably; and remaining active and engaged members within their communities.

Measures taken in past budgets, and most recently in the fall economic statement, paired with the programs and services we're currently delivering, are working to address these key priorities. We are putting more money in the pockets of seniors, supporting efforts to age at home, and empowering seniors in their communities. Now it is a matter of further strengthening these programs and services.

In terms of the progress, I want to speak to you specifically about the recent work being done on old age security; the funding for the benefits delivery modernization; and of course the funding for the New Horizons for Seniors program.

As you all know, the old age security program is the first pillar of Canada's retirement system. Last year alone, it paid over $60 billion in benefits to seven million beneficiaries, making it, unquestionably, an essential program. That's why, as of July 2022, we made a historic increase of 10% to the old age security pension for seniors aged 75 and over. This is the first targeted increase to the OAS pension since 1973. It will provide full pensioners with an additional support of approximately $800 over the first year. This increase has strengthened the financial security of 3.3 million seniors, 56% of whom are women.

In addition to the increase, Canadians can rest assured that support benefits such as the OAS pension, the guaranteed income supplement and the Canada pension plan are all indexed to inflation to help keep up with the cost of living and will actually never decrease. However, to effectively serve and support older Canadians, we need to increase the pension call centre's capacity. As such, ESDC has requested $46.4 million in these supplementary estimates to support those efforts. This will lead to lower wait times and to better support for inquiries so that seniors can easily access the benefits they need, when they need them.

In budget 2021 we committed to accelerating the replacement of the OAS platform to guarantee that our systems remain strong and resilient to ensure safe, timely and effective delivery of the OAS benefit.

The BDM, as I'm sure you've heard, is transforming how the government delivers benefits, ensuring that Canadians are at the core of our services. An additional $13.5 million in operating expenditures will enable the creation of a new contact centre model equipped with a well-trained, integrated workforce to better deliver service excellence to Canadians.

Finally, I would like to discuss the New Horizons for Seniors program and the tremendous impact this program has had in empowering seniors in their communities. I know that many of you are very familiar with this program and know the impact of this program in your own communities. I consider myself very fortunate to have seen first-hand how much these programs positively impact the lives of seniors. The NHSP is a great way to create opportunities for older adults to share their knowledge and skills with others and to stay socially active. That is a key to staying healthy and having a high quality of life. That is why we've looked to further enhance the capacity of the program to support more projects that fight social isolation, combat senior fraud, teach digital literacy and support healthy aging in an inclusive and accessible environment.

ESDC, as you know, Mr. Chair, has requested $10 million to enhance the New Horizons for Seniors program so that we can support even more projects that improve the well-being of seniors. As stated earlier, seniors are and will always be a key priority for our government, and our record reflects that.

Thanks again for this opportunity to speak to the many measures we're taking to deliver on our commitment to improve the lives of seniors.

I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister.

Before we begin, I'm going to remind committee members to stay as close as possible in their questioning to the subject matter the committee is studying.

We will begin with Madam Roberts. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for giving us some time to ask you some very crucial questions.

You say that you have lifted 45,000 seniors out of poverty, so help me understand. What indicators of poverty are you using when you reference the statistic of 45,000 seniors being lifted out of poverty? What is the formula or metric you're using to determine these numbers?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Mrs. Roberts, for that question. It is a very important question.

Let me start off by saying that I think ensuring that we improve the quality of life for seniors—particularly improving their financial security—has been a key priority for our government since we took office back in 2015. However, we also recognize the challenges that seniors are facing, particularly—

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I am sorry, Minister. I have only a few minutes, and I apologize for interrupting you.

My question relates to what formula or metrics you used to determine the 45,000 seniors you have lifted out of poverty.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I could turn to my officials to give you the breakdown of that.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I'd really appreciate it. I'll move on until we can get that information.

Seniors with notably high poverty rates include single seniors and seniors from vulnerable groups. Examples are women living alone, recent immigrants, persons with a disability and indigenous seniors. Of the 45,000 seniors who have been lifted out of poverty, how many belong to these groups? Can you give us a percentage of that 45,000 you mentioned whom you lifted out of poverty?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I can certainly get my department officials to allude to the breakdown of that number, but let me talk about why financial security for seniors is extremely critical and about the work to be able to support seniors from the very beginning.

First and foremost—as, Mrs. Roberts, you would know—we restored the age of eligibility for seniors to retire back from 67 to 65. We increased the guaranteed income supplement. As you know, that actually helped—

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

That's great news. We have heard it before.

I am sorry to keep interrupting, but I have so many questions that I really need to get to. If you could get those numbers for me, it would give me a better indication of what this true example is of 45,000 seniors lifted from poverty.

I am going to move on to my next question.

You say you have lifted 45,000 seniors out of poverty. Where did this statistic come from? If you do not have the breakdown for me, can you tell me how you determined the 45,000?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

With all due respect, Mrs. Roberts, if you allow me to answer the question.... I know my officials are there to have that breakdown for you to answer that specific question you are asking.

Allow me to briefly go back to the fact that the guaranteed income supplement that we have enhanced has helped over 900,000 of the most vulnerable seniors. Most of them are single women—

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Can we get the officials to provide me with that information? I need to get that information because I cannot wrap my head around that, so—

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I can absolutely turn to my officials. I know they are in the room.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

If you could, please allow them to do that. I would appreciate those numbers.

I am going to move on, as I am short of time.

According to Statistics Canada, the poverty rate went from 14.5% in 2015 to 8.1% in 2020. It's a dramatic decrease. Specifically, the rate of poverty among seniors dropped dramatically as well. However, Statistics Canada stated that these decreases were driven mostly by income from temporary pandemic relief benefits.

Due to these temporary payments, according to Statistics Canada, this measurement of poverty is skewed, so can you explain to me how the rate of decrease in poverty was impacted by the CERB payments?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Again, I want to try to go over all of the ways we have helped seniors and lifted 45,000 seniors out of poverty.

As I first mentioned, one of the very first things that we did was restore the age of eligibility that your government wanted to raise to 67. We restored that back to 65. We enhanced the guaranteed income supplement, which has helped 900,000 of the most vulnerable—

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

We hear those—

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

With all due respect, I would love to answer the question if you would allow me—

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I know, but I am short on time, and I am sure the chair wants me to move on.

Can you get your officials to give me those responses on the 45,000 seniors from the previous questions we asked?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Absolutely. I know they're in the room.

Go ahead, Jean.

[Jean-François Tremblay, Deputy Minister , Department of Employment and Social Development]

The numbers come from statistics from Statistics Canada. If you look at StatsCan, you see that the poverty level for seniors in 2015 it was 7.1%,. In 2019, it was 5.7%, and, as you said, it went down in 2020 to 3.1%, partially due to the COVID measures, for sure. We have to remember that we went from 7.1% to 3.1%.