Human Resources Committee on March 10th, 2023

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

That number is substantial.

Following along with that, I remember when it was announced. I'm in Saint John—Rothesay, New Brunswick, and our provincial government is a Conservative government, with Premier Higgs, and it was Dominic Cardy who was minister at that point, I believe. I remember looking at our province and across the country and saying that there are probably going to be a lot of provinces that won't sign on, and it's going to be a challenge. To your credit and to the department's credit, they signed up one by one, I say begrudgingly, but they know it's a good program. Whether it was Premier Kenney, Premier Moe or Premier Higgs, they knew it was a good program.

You went across the country and you negotiated these deals. Can you share your experiences of how that went? You probably had more challenges in some places than in others, but can you share with us how that rolled out across the country?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

How long do we have? It's 30 seconds? Okay, it went great.

One of the things that became increasingly clear was the unbelievable economic benefit that provinces and territories would receive, both in revenues returned to government coffers because of increased taxes and spending and also the impact of the pandemic, the “she-cession”, and the fact that so many women who had been out of the workforce because of the pandemic were now returning. It was so important.

There's a labour shortage in this country, and there's a housing shortage. One of the things that I think convinced a few governments is that these are workers who are already here and who already have housing as well. Most importantly, the economics don't lie. This is really smart economic and social policy, and it's hard to argue with those facts when you have them in front of you.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Bérubé, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, how does the agreement with Quebec differ from the agreements signed with the other provinces, territories and Indigenous communities under the Multilateral Early Learning and Child Care Framework?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

As you know, it is an asymmetrical agreement, based solely on the number of children under the age of 12. It represents about $6 billion over five years that will simply be transferred to Quebec.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

You said that Bill C-35 states that the First Nations were involved in developing the Indigenous Early Learning and Child Care Framework.

Can you tell us what groups were consulted and how many times they were consulted?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Are you talking about consultations on the bill or on the Indigenous Early Learning and Child Care Framework?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I'm talking about consultations concerning the bill.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I'm going to let Ms. Reddin speak to that.

[Cheri Reddin, Director General, Indigenous Early Learning and Child Care Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development]

We were very interested in hearing from indigenous governments, organizations and representatives on Bill C-35. Formal outreach was undertaken to over 50 governments, organizations and stakeholders early last year. There was promotion through some of the existing partnerships to solicit feedback and interest around the proposed legislation.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

How did you divide the budget among the Indigenous communities all across Canada?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

For the Indigenous communities, the budget allocated to child care and early childhood centres is divided among the distinct groups: the First Nations and the Métis and Inuit, and also the self-governing First Nations. The way the budget is divided is decided on a regional basis for each of those organizations. It is not divided by the federal government. It is transferred to the regional governments, which distribute it themselves.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

So you are going to distribute $30 billion over five years to the Indigenous communities.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

The $30 billion is the total that will be distributed to all of them.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

It is what will be distributed to all of the First Nations, the Inuit, and the others.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

That also includes the provinces and territories.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

How are the communities reacting when it comes to the distribution? It will be the provinces that control the budgets, but have you had follow-up concerning the reactions of the Indigenous communities?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

There are two frameworks: one with the provinces and territories and the other with the Indigenous communities. The provinces and territories will decide how to distribute the funds based on an action plan that they send us every two years. With the Indigenous communities it is more autonomous, but there are still principles that guide that initiative and that were developed with the Indigenous partners.

I can tell you about my most recent experience, two years ago, with the Manitoba Métis Federation. It has already opened 12 early childhood centres and is planning to open four more, for a total of 200 more spaces in Manitoba. I was in St. Eustache, a Métis community, where I visited the early childhood centre. Half of the 40 or so spaces it provides are reserved for Métis children and the other half are open to other communities. The staff do truly excellent work, based on learning the language and culture. The learning really is based on their Indigenous traditions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Bérubé.

Madame Gazan, you have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

The Poverty Reduction Act establishes a national advisory council very much like the one we have in Bill C-35, but unlike Bill C-35, the national advisory council that's being used in the Poverty Reduction Act is required to submit a report to the minister on the progress being made in terms of poverty reduction. The minister is required to table the report in Parliament.

Clause 16 in the bill does not include a requirement for indicators to measure quality, accessibility, affordability and inclusion to be in the minister's report. The sector has raised concerns about how to ensure government accountability.

What is your plan for accountability? Are you willing to amend it so it's more similar to the Poverty Reduction Act?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

In this legislation, we have put forward that it will be the minister doing the annual reporting to Parliament. Of course, provinces and territories have to report to us on an annual basis with regard to the progress and challenges they have. We need to do that.

It's really about the minister reporting. The national advisory council on ELCC is to report to the minister, and then the minister will report to Parliament and to the public.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Are you willing to amend it, however, so that it's consistent with requests coming from the sector in terms of accountability measures?

I know that's in the bill, but that's not what's coming from the sector in terms of what they're asking for to ensure accountability. Are you willing to support the sector in their request for greater accountability?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Could I ask why it would be preferable for the advisory council to report, as opposed to the minister?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

What we've heard from the sector is that's exactly what they're supporting. It's something similar to the Poverty Reduction Act. We've seen this in action. The sector is asking for the bill to be amended to mirror something similar.

As the minister, are you willing to explore that further, in terms of making amendments to support greater accountability?