Evidence of meeting #59 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quality.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
Thank you for that.
Moving along, we do have a lot of research, primarily from Quebec—I had the privilege of visiting the team at Ste-Justine when I was in Montreal earlier this year—about development outcomes in terms of a non-profit, accessible and inclusive system. I'm wondering if you could weigh in on the not-for-profit model in terms of children's development outcomes and where the data is from the models that we do have, both here in Canada and abroad.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Now
I don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but I would really encourage Madame Gosselin to also answer this question.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
Perhaps we'll split the time.
Madame Gosselin, you can also [Inaudible—Editor].
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Now
What we know is the development outcomes are always better when the quality is higher. We also know that the working conditions and learning conditions contribute to high quality. If you have good working conditions and good compensation systems in place, the outcomes will be better development. As a result, the programs will be of higher quality.
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
Studies in Quebec show a major difference in service quality, because the level of quality in non-profit services is 30% higher.
This is somewhat related to the previous question. Non-profit child care is available across Quebec, including the more remote areas. However, for-profit child care providers set up shop in areas like Montreal or Quebec City with high population density, where they have a better chance of doing good business. Coming back to equal opportunity, if non-profit child care can set up shop anywhere, that will certainly bring better access to services and foster development for all children.
Why offer high-quality services? They allow for early detection of developmental challenges and intervention before those challenges become a real issue. Non-profit services are supported by health, social services and child welfare workers, which means we can secure truly equal opportunity for children and they can succeed later in school. Therefore, quality plays a key role in children's development.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Gosselin.
Ms. Bérubé now has the floor for six minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I'd like to thank the witnesses attending this meeting and the interpreters, who are doing a really good job.
Ms. Gosselin, you didn't mention this: How do you feel about the National Advisory Council on Early Learning and Child Care being created, and who do you think should be on it?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
Establishing a committee is a good tool to ensure enforcement. That said, who should be on it? Organizations representing each province need to be on it. It's also very important to have researchers from various backgrounds to ensure that high-quality services are provided in all provinces across Canada.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
You also state that the pandemic and the labour shortage have shed new light on the critical nature of child care services, particularly from an economic perspective, because without them some women would be unable to work.
What effect have the pandemic and the labour shortage had on child development?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
Yes, we're currently experiencing the fallout. The pandemic has wreaked havoc on the most vulnerable families. Among other things, more incidents have been reported at the Youth Protection Branch. The pandemic has isolated families and children. We have families who use services to feed their children, and that's very important in this time of inflation we're experiencing.
When it comes to the labour shortage, it's a vicious circle. Take health services, for example. We don't have enough people who can work in the system right now. We need more workers, but they can't work because they don't have access to child care. Child care used to be a go-to solution when people needed to balance work and family, and now it's become a critical and urgent need to address the labour shortage plaguing all sectors of the economy.
Therefore, child care services don't just meet children's needs, they also help balance work and family, which is very important.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
In your presentation, you state that it's important to have quality child care services. We know that Quebec's child care services are an example to follow, because they do more than just care for children.
Can you tell us more about how quality services affect children?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
The quality of services has declined. The earlier they begin working with children, the earlier they can recognize those who need language stimulation, for example. That means those children have access to language development services as soon as they begin to speak. This gives them better chances of success in school and of integrating better into the school system. Because the challenges are addressed earlier, the children can have better experiences.
Quality services are important across the board. Children who have stimulation needs because they come from vulnerable backgrounds have access to quality food as well as activities to help them develop all facets of their personality. When they enter the school system, they experience inequality less frequently and are more successful.
Quality services play a key role in ensuring equal opportunity.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
You also seem to be saying that educators are better placed than parents to determine what's good for child development. Does that mean early childhood education should be mandatory, in your opinion?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
No, absolutely not.
Based on what Quebec and the Accueillir la petite enfance educational program advocate, children are the prime player in their development, and the main responsibility for children's education lies with parents.
It's not our role to usurp the parents' role as educators. Rather, we have a collaborative and supportive relationship in educating children. Close cooperation starts to develop as soon as the child is entrusted to us. It also helps us fill certain gaps if the family is not able to work with their child or need additional tools, or if they need help in their parental role. Our role is to help parents and advise them.
So child care services shouldn't be mandatory. Parents remain the primary educators of their children.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
For a long time, Quebec went it alone with its family policy and network of education services. In your opinion, why hasn't the model been replicated elsewhere in Canada?
4:30 p.m.
Chair, Board of Directors, Association québécoise des centres de la petite enfance
Quebec had to move faster to close the gap between the male and female employment rates. At the same time, it needed to take action for certain disadvantaged groups, like single mothers.
When the children's educational services network was set up, Quebec very quickly saw an increase in economic productivity among single mothers. It was a societal choice.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Bérubé.
We will now move to Ms. Gazan for six minutes.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you so much, Chair.
My first question is for Madam Ballantyne.
We've heard a lot in committee today about the crisis in the child care sector and about expanding it.
We know that the key crisis in the sector has to do with the workforce. That's making it difficult to create the new spaces that are needed to meet the demand to bring down some of the wait-lists that we're talking about. It's one thing to build spaces, but we need trained workers to staff them. What is causing this crisis and how can the federal government help fix it?
4:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Now
What we have is first and foremost a crisis of retention. We're unable to retain qualified early childhood educators. They leave, most often, after three years in the workforce. They do so because the working conditions are so difficult and because the pay is so low.
We also have an impossible job trying to recruit educators who are qualified to replace those who are leaving.
It's not that there are no qualified educators around who have training; it's that they don't want to work in this sector. They're leaving for higher-paid jobs, particularly in the public education system.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I appreciate that, and I was actually one of those people myself.
Madam Bruske, it's good to see you again, and thank you for your comments on the rights of indigenous peoples. Certainly that's something, you know, that is near and dear to my heart.
That's one of the reasons the NDP is pushing the Liberal government right now to make amendments so that the bill will align with Bill C-15, which affirms that the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples has application in Canadian law, by including this commitment in the bill to ensure that the government upholds the right of indigenous peoples to free, prior and informed consent for legislation pertaining to indigenous children. So, thank you for that.
I want to build on the comments by Madam Ballantyne.
We have a workforce crisis. Do you think that Bill C-35 should be amended to include an explicit commitment to decent work for child care staff?
4:30 p.m.
President, Canadian Labour Congress
That would absolutely be an amendment we would support because we know that we need a robust workforce strategy to make sure that we can address the recruitment and retention issues in the sector.
We know that making sure that folks want to come to work in the sector and can afford to stay to work in the sector is critical, especially when we know that the heightened need for child care in rural and northern communities is at an all-time high. Recruiting and retaining folks, not just in urban centres but also in rural and northern areas, is critically important.
Finding ways to come up with a workforce strategy for those regions has to be part of this particular discussion. Otherwise, you can build all the centres you want, but if you have no active hands actually taking care of the folks in your care, you still have a problem and are still not going to get any further ahead.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Madam Ballantyne, you know it's no secret that child care now is being pushed to prioritize expansion of not-for-profit and public child care programs.
My question is this, and we hear this debate around the table: What risk to a high-quality, national child care system does the expansion of for-profit care, as was recently announced in Alberta, pose?
We came out with a bill, and then two minutes later they announced over 20,000 for-profit spaces when we haven't seen an expansion of public not-for-profit spaces. What risk does that pose to the expansion of a high-quality, national child care system?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Child Care Now
There are a number of risks.
One of the things I would say is that putting a lot of emphasis on expanding for-profit care is a real lost opportunity.
The other thing I'd say around risk is that what we know from the for-profit providers and what they have said publicly with respect to the Canada-wide system of early learning and child care is that they're concerned, for example, about the constraints that are put on them by holding down parent fees.
Also, they are concerned about being over-regulated and that it in some way is going to limit their profit margins, as I would suggest. Organizations representing the for-profit sector have said publicly that they want to end public funding, direct operational funding, and instead go back to giving parents money to spend for the child care.
We just know that hasn't worked, so if we allow for the expansion of the for-profit sector, we're going to actually increase the lobby to reduce regulations.
Am I taking up your time? I'm sorry.