Human Resources Committee on March 21st, 2023

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It's just because I have limited time and I have one other question for Madam Farris.

You mentioned in your brief that transparency is vital so that public funds are being spent wisely.

Do you support amending Bill C-35 to add stronger reporting requirements so that people know what advice an advisory council is providing the minister and for the minister's report to include a detailed summary of all information regarding how federal money is being spent?

[Maureen Farris]

All I can really confirm for you.... Yes, I agree that there needs to be the transparency for the money that is being spent. Right now, there are a lot of requirements on operators. We have to provide our audited financial statements annually to our CMSMs, and then those are eventually provided to the provincial government. I assume that they are then also provided to the federal government for their review as well.

We have a lot of paperwork, as Ms. Hannen pointed out, a lot of paperwork that we have to do on a regular, consistent basis for the CWELCC program. That is taking away from our time for being with the children and our families and our staff and supporting those people who are in our programs, but I do believe that we need to ensure our public dollars are spent very carefully so we can assure that quality care is still being provided to the children and their families.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Thank you to the witnesses for your presentations before committee today.

We're still in public, so I'm going to use a few minutes to ask the clerk to give an overview.

The witnesses can excuse themselves from the meeting and virtually.

Again, thank you for your time.

We have a few minutes. As you know, committee members, we had two meetings displaced. House operations gave us three options. We said yes to all three. Then they came back and said, “no”, “no” and “yes”.

The one option we have currently is for next Thursday evening from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. As chair, I have scheduled a meeting for next Thursday from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. to continue with the committee, with witnesses that will be scheduled then.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

This is to make up for...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

This Friday's meeting interfered with President Biden's visit.

We're still off one. We're still checking on resources, but I don't have anything to offer to committee at this time.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

For that week, it would be Thursday and Friday, then?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Next week, we will be meeting Thursday evening from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. and Friday morning as regularly scheduled. Tuesday is budget day.

Ms. Gray, go ahead.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that information. I appreciate that.

At this time, I would like to move the following motion. I will say really quickly that this is a motion that everyone has had for a couple of weeks. This is our standard motion to call the ministers for estimates.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

My understanding is that the motion is in order.

Go ahead, Ms. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

I will read it really quickly:

That, pursuant to the Order of Reference from the House dated Wednesday, February 15, 2023, the Committee invites: the Minister for Employment, Workforce Development, and Disability Inclusion ; the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development; the Minister of Housing, Diversity and Inclusion; the Minister of Labour; the Minister of Seniors; to appear for no fewer than 2 hours each regarding the Supplementary Estimates (C) 2022-2023 and the Main Estimates 2023-2024. That relevant department officials be invited to appear with the Ministers at the same meetings including the respective Chief Financial Officers; that these meeting take place as soon as possible, but no later than April 28, 2023.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

You have heard the motion. It is in order.

Recognizing that we are running short on time, is there any discussion?

Mr. Long, go ahead.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Mr. Chair, I have some thoughts.

If you add it up and take a quick look at how many meetings we have left until the end of the year, I think we're looking at probably between 12 and 14 meetings. Time will move quickly on us, and we have a lot that we still need to do. I would respectfully like to suggest an amendment to MP Gray's motion.

Do you want me to read out the whole thing and then throw this in, or just the amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have the floor. It's your option to make an amendment if you choose.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

It's to say, after the words “Minister of Labour; the Minister of Seniors”, the following:

and for all ministers to appear during the same meeting with one panel composed of three ministers and a second panel composed of two ministers regarding the Supplementary Estimates...

and so on.

In past years, we have had meetings with four ministers in one meeting. To me, to take up five meetings with these ministers—

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

What's that...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

[Inaudible—Editor] Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

For me to take up five meetings, that is, over 30% of our time for the ministers.... We've had ministers here—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Not on supplementary [Inaudible—Editor]

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Yes, but regardless, I think we've had ministers available to join us at HUMA so far at a level that I've certainly never seen. I think their accessibility has been really good. Again, I think that instead of having five meetings tied up with ministers.... With my amendment, we have three and two for one meeting, and they'll appear no later than May 31.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have the amendment, which is up for debate.

I have Mrs. Falk on the amendment.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I think there are other ways this committee can be more responsible with time, like doing scheduling and planning in a subcommittee. There are other areas that can be trimmed.

Through you, Chair, to Mr. Long, as opposed to skirting ministerial accountability, at minimum.... These are the main estimates. I don't see why we can't have time with the appropriate ministers on something that is specific to the main estimates.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Gray, did you have your hand up? I'll then see Ms. Gazan.

Mrs. Gray is first, and then it's Ms. Gazan.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As a reminder, these are the supplementary estimates and the main estimates, so this covers a wider range than just one of those. We have to remember, too, that, yes, we have had ministers here, but ministers have been relating specifically to legislation. That was appropriate. They came. It was their legislation. It made sense.

We also had a Liberal motion on housing. That was a great study that we did.

Everything that we've done here has been.... We had the estimates ministers, as well.

This is just normal practice. It's very reasonable to have them. This committee just happens to have this many ministers. There are other committees that might only have one. That's the way this is. Perhaps we can even look at scheduling extra meetings if we need to, but this is just a normal course of business.

I am open to an amendment to potentially move this to May 12 to give us a bit more time. Of course, we don't want to do anything to delay the work that's being done at the committee on legislation like Bill C-35, but that's something we can look at that would allow more scheduling time for ministers.

Those are my comments. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

We are in discussions on the amendment. The legislation takes precedence over anything else we do, so we will stick with that.

We have House resources until six o'clock, so we will adjourn at six if the discussions continue.

Go ahead, Ms. Gazan.