Human Resources Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We're now returning to the main motion as amended.

I see no raised hands. We'll proceed to a recorded vote.

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Mr. Collins, you have the floor.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I would like to introduce one of the motions I had submitted to the committee, if you don't mind. I believe the clerk has a copy and has distributed it. I'd like to introduce it before I read it out.

With regard to my municipal background, over the last number of years I've focused on affordable housing in Hamilton. I've waited several months to introduce a motion related to housing that will help people not only in my riding of Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, and certainly not just those in Hamilton; it will also deliver assistance to people across the country.

We know that the pandemic has been hard on people. We've seen in some communities our affordable housing wait-lists get a bit bigger. In response, over the last number of years the federal government has introduced a number of programs to assist not just municipalities but also non-profits and other housing stakeholders.

The motion in front of you, which I'll read out, speaks to an existing program that the government has in place, and that of course was advertised through the campaign and has received a lot of attention recently.

My motion reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study regarding options for the design and rollout for the government’s proposed housing accelerator fund, including but not limited to investments in staffing and technological support for municipal planning departments, property purchases, infrastructure upgrades, and policy development (i.e. inclusionary zoning and transit-oriented development bylaws) for the purpose of reaching the government’s goal of 100,000 new homes by 2024-25;

That the study also investigate how the government can build on the Federal Lands Initiative to identify federally owned properties that might be made available to municipalities and/or other stakeholders for the purpose of increasing housing supply;

That the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House; and

That, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Jeneroux, you have the floor. Then I will go to Mr. Coteau.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I like a lot of this. I'm wondering if there's a possible way in which we could merge it with mine, which basically looks at a lot of the similar programs—they're identified in my motion—but also ties it into CMHC and the Minister of Housing, talking about those programs.

If you're amenable to it, Mr. Chair, I will put forward an amendment to his motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have the floor. Are you going to move an amendment?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Yes, in the Collins motion—if I can just refer to it as that, and not read it all out—I would include the piece from my motion in addition: That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee invite the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to update the committee on the housing crisis, including but not limited to the national housing strategy, the rapid housing initiative and the first-time homebuyer incentive.

That's the end of my amendment, Mr. Chair. We'll get that to you in writing.

It specifically outlines what I think Mr. Collins is getting at when he speaks about some of the government's proposed programs, in particular the goal of 100,000 homes by 2024-25. This just outlines those three programs. It also invites the CMHC and the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion to weigh in on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Jeneroux, and we will circulate that when we have it.

Next we have Mr. Collins and then Madame Ferrada on the amendment, followed by Mr. Jeneroux.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and through you, I certainly appreciate the offer in terms of the amendment. My concern is that my motion is dealing specifically with affordable housing. I know we have two issues related to housing that have received a lot of attention in the House and a lot of attention from the Canadian public, namely housing affordability and affordable housing. My motion speaks to the affordable housing component.

My concern about expanding the motion is that, as you know, the minister and ministry have asked for input from stakeholders about the municipal accelerator fund in terms of what it will look like when it's funded, so I'm anxious to understand how this committee can contribute to the comments that the minister and the ministry will receive. I know my own municipality has submitted comments relating to its desire to see more affordable housing and what it would like to see from the municipal accelerator fund. I know that CityHousing Hamilton, which is Hamilton's largest affordable housing provider, has requested land from the federal government.

If we expand this—with all due respect to Mr. Jeneroux—into other areas, it gets into some of the comments and concerns we had on the last issue, and that is watering down the motion to the point where we'd spread ourselves too thin. I'm all for talking about housing and I will support other housing motions at this committee—there's no doubt about that. However, on this particular motion, I'd like to continue to focus on the municipal accelerator fund, understanding the timing and knowing that the minister will be before us on other issues quite soon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Collins.

Next is Madame Ferrada, and then Mr. Van Bynen. My apologies, Mr. Van Bynen, for shortening your name earlier.

Madame Ferrada.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to my colleague Mr. Collins for this motion. It deals with a matter that I work on every day and that is really important to me.

We can see the housing crisis all over the country. My thanks to my colleague Mr. Jeneroux for introducing this amendment.

I have a thought, though. The minister will be coming to the committee to talk about his mandate letter. Currently, the Standing Committee on Finance is also conducting a study on housing. So I would like to propose that, this time, we remain focused on what is coming, on the future needs, specifically those designed to meet the needs of the program, as my colleague states in his motion. I would be very happy to support my colleague in a future motion. It could well give us a another perspective when we have read the results of the study by the Standing Committee on Finance and when we have heard from the minister.

Today, we have to quickly agree that the needs are there. Programs must be implemented. A lot of housing is needed. We have work to do, together with the municipalities. The housing accelerator fund is more needed than ever.

I would also like to thank my colleague for the interest he is showing in the issue of housing. I know that he has introduced two motions on the issue. Once again, I will be happy to work with him on a future motion. In that motion, we could hear from witnesses from the Société d'habitation du Québec, without unduly broadening the motion to the point that we lose sight of what we want to do with the housing issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Ferrada.

I will call on Mr. Van Bynen and then Mr. Jeneroux and Mr. Ruff.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

While I can appreciate the intent of the amendment, it's important for us to make sure we focus on the way forward. Some programs have been announced, and I know that many municipalities are eager to find a way to make sure we start delivering the new options—affordable housing options—on the ground. Our greatest benefit would be to focus on the way forward and make sure we bring in the municipalities at all levels so there's a program we can implement going forward.

It was mentioned earlier that Finance is already looking at some of the elements that are being proposed in the amendment, and I'm agreeable as well to having CMHC focus on the way forward with us. We'll also have the minister in front of us when we're reviewing the mandate letters as we go forward. There is plenty of opportunity to take a look at what's in place now, and if we want to do a deep dive on that, we'd probably have a more effective outcome if we focused on that at another time.

In my mind, the urgency is the way forward and how we develop programs so that they're deliverable on the ground at the municipal level or where people are seeking the housing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Next is Mr. Jeneroux. Then we'll go to Mr. Ruff.

Mr. Jeneroux, I believe everybody has the amendment that we're now discussing. You have the floor.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I'm making a habit of agreeing somewhat with Mr. Van Bynen today; we'll have to end this after today's meeting. I think he's probably right with regard to the minister. Probably getting the minister back on this one is an overreach right away, because he will already be here on the mandate.

I don't know how procedurally we would do this, Mr. Chair, but I'm thinking that under where Mr. Collins put the “Federal Lands Initiative” piece and “other stakeholders”, I know we don't necessarily have to identify that in the motion, but certainly I think that one of the other stakeholders might be the CMHC in that particular discussion, which would then get to some of the questions we might have.

Again, I don't know if we necessarily, from a procedural standpoint, have to put that in, but knowing that it will be a stakeholder that I will likely be submitting as part of this study, that's the first piece I wanted to address. I'm happy to rescind my amendment if it's the understanding of the committee that the CMHC is one of the stakeholders we'd like to pursue.

Then, also, the second piece I'm wanting to flag is just Mr. Coteau's comment that he's looking forward to supporting housing motions put forward. I know we have two housing motions on there, so I'm hoping to move that next, Mr. Chair, if I'm able to get the floor once we deal with this one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

In fairness, before the committee considers Mr. Jeneroux's position of rescinding his amendment, Mr. Ruff had his hand up.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Obviously things have changed a bit, Mr. Chair, with Mr. Jeneroux rescinding it, because it ties into the same sort of point that I wanted to raise, which is the importance of having the CMHC as one of the stakeholders.

As well, I'm a big believer—maybe it's the military background in me—in how things nest together. My biggest criticism and my observations of a lot of federal programs are about that lack of nesting and interconnection. On the national housing strategy, this is all part of what's being proposed here in that feedback, so if we're not even mentioning it, we risk being disconnected on how everything interacts together. However, in light of Mr. Jeneroux's rescinding of the amendment, I think that ends this part. Maybe we can discuss it if we're going to bring forth any other tweaks to the motion later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

Madame Ferrada, did you want to speak?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

I just wanted to know whether my colleague is withdrawing his amendment. Is that what he is going to do?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes, I'm going to get to that.

Mr. Jeneroux, the committee needs to give unanimous consent for you to withdraw your amendment. Are you requesting that the committee give you unanimous consent?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Yes, I'm requesting that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Yes.

(Amendment withdrawn)

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Now, Madame Ferrada, we return to debate on the main motion.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to my colleague for his contribution. I would like to propose an amendment. I think we will be able to agree on it. Perhaps we should add into the motion that the study that my colleague Mr. Collins is proposing be undertaken immediately after the study on the labour shortage and Ms. Zarrillo's motion. I would like to formally propose an amendment to this motion, that Mr. Collins' study be the second one that the committee undertakes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You've heard the amendment to the motion. Is there any discussion?

Seeing no discussion—