Human Resources Committee on March 31st, 2023

[Dr. Susan Prentice]

One international benchmark is a recommendation that about 1% of a nation's GDP should be spent on early learning and child care, and we will still not meet that target, even with the current spending ambitions. Building a national system of early learning and child care is a long-term project. I think Bill—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a point of order, Chair.

I am having difficulty hearing the witness. It's fading in and out. I don't know if that is in the room as well, or if it's just like that for us online.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It's not in the room, Ms. Falk.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

The interpreter says, yes, it is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We will suspend for a moment while we get this corrected. We will suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It appears that the technical issue has been corrected. We will return to Madam Bérubé.

You have two minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

That's great. So I didn't lose too much time.

Given that Ms. Lainé is back with us, my question will be for her. I also want to thank her for coming to testify before the committee today.

You may not have had time to talk about the challenges and recommendations you mentioned in your presentation, so I will let you have the time to talk to us about that.

[Amélie Lainé]

Thank you, Ms. Bérubé. I'm really sorry about the technical problems I had with the internet and Zoom.

Regarding recommendations and needs, I talked about that briefly. We have to make sure that under this bill, the early learning and child care framework for young indigenous children is accessible to urban indigenous organizations.

At the moment, this funding is only administered through indigenous political institutions, and it does not give service organizations like the indigenous friendship centres in Canada access to funds to develop early childhood and family services.

We know that indigenous families use little or no services offered by the government because they are afraid of racism or discrimination. Things like indigenous friendship centres become places for receiving services that are culturally appropriate and safe, and this enables us to support families and young children.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I think Val-d'Or is an example, because the services are beneficial for young children. However, under Bill C-35...

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Bérubé.

We'll go to Ms. Gazan for six minutes, please.

You appear to be on mute.

We still cannot hear you.

Ms. Gazan, I'm going to go back to two of the earlier members while we work to correct your issue. You will get your six minutes.

I'm going to return to Madam Ferreri and then to Ms. Saks for two minutes each, before we return to Ms. Gazan.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be as quick as I can.

Sheila, could you clarify those numbers you said earlier? I asked about wait-lists. You said that there were 300 per program, but there are 40 programs. That's 12,000. That seems outrageous when you only have 3,300 spaces.

Am I doing the math wrong?

[Sheila Olan-MacLean]

When you think of a program that may have possibly 100 spaces, or less than 100 spaces, and it has 300 to 400 people—some have 600 people—on the wait-list, yes, that's probably pretty accurate.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It's four times the amount.

[Sheila Olan-MacLean]

It's not the experience of every program. It is an experience, because we do pay a lot of attention to quality and to family engagement. The reputation gets out there.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I know what great work you do.

It's really important that Canadians hear that this is the reality. There are far more parents and families waiting for access than have access. That number is out of control. We have to fix that.

I have to move on.

Ms. Lainé, can you table this with the committee if you don't have time to answer this question?

I have two things, if you can quickly answer yes or no. Do you represent unlicensed child care providers?

[Amélie Lainé]

No.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Okay. I'm just clarifying.

Could I get you to table this with the committee? I don't know if you'll have enough time to answer.

It is understood that since the proportion of aboriginal people living in cities is over 50% and growing, the government has a responsibility to this population. What do you think would be the best way to implement aboriginal early learning and child care programs and partnerships, so that they can also support urban children and help them stay culturally connected?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri.

Ms. Lainé, you will have to provide that in writing to the committee, or you may be able to address it in another question.

Next, we have Ms. Saks for two minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I have a point of order, Chair. I'm just making sure you can hear me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I can now. We'll return to you, Ms. Gazan after Ms. Saks.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for agreeing to participate in our study, Ms. Lainé.

What does not-for-profit care mean for indigenous children in urban settings?

[Amélie Lainé]

Thank you for your question.

As I said when I answered a question from Ms. Ferreri, my association does not represent unlicensed child care services. I am speaking for the indigenous community organizations known as indigenous friendship centres. We provide early childhood and family services.

What we offer goes beyond child care. We offer support services for indigenous families and children. As we know, a majority of indigenous families do not use the child care offered by the government or use private child care. In any event, that is how things are in Quebec. I believe it is the same in the rest of Canada.

These families often find it difficult to access that type of child care, because of racism, discrimination and prejudice, so community organizations like the friendship centres that can offer parents supports like drop-in child care and drop-in respite services offer avenues for the Canadian government to consider. The government needs to make sure that the urban indigenous population has access to high quality child care that is outside the usual structured child care framework.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I have one last follow-up question.

Do the current agreements, as they're written with the inclusion of the recognition of indigenous children, enhance the ability of friendship centres to do their work, yes or no?

[Amélie Lainé]

No. Because the funding is administered by the indigenous political institutions, service organizations do not have access to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Saks.

We'll now go to Ms. Gazan for six minutes.