Human Resources Committee on May 30th, 2023

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

We will now go to Mrs. Gray for five minutes. We will end after Mrs. Gray and Mr. Long, I believe. The ministers who have to go will simply excuse themselves when the time comes.

Mrs. Gray, you have five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Qualtrough, I have a couple of questions for you.

During some of the questioning here today, you mentioned that there are ongoing consultations regarding working on the regulations for Bill C-22. What I'm hearing from a lot of disability advocacy groups is that the consultations aren't taking place at this point because the legislation hasn't passed. I have had some say that they have reached out to your office, wanting to engage, and they are being put on hold until that happens.

Can you speak to that? What is the timeline, and whom you are consulting with?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

First of all, I think there are two different processes happening. There is work that has been done that was budgeted over three years to work with the disability community. We have actually funded specific national organizations to go out and do those consultations for us and to work with the department to pull together as much information as we can in anticipation of the regulatory process.

What people.... I'm reading into what you're saying. People are probably being told that the formal regulatory process cannot begin until the bill gets royal assent, but there is ongoing work.

Elisha, can you...?

There's a lot going on in that space, but the formal piece hasn't started.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I think that answers that, Minister. Thank you.

My next question is with regard to the Auditor General's report that came out. This is the accessibility audit for transportation, which referenced that more than a million Canadians with disabilities face barriers while travelling. The Auditor General highlighted a lack of consultation and enforcement.

There was a lot in that Auditor General's report. We don't have enough time to really dig into it here. However, can you give us some insight as to what work is being done since that report, what we expect to see coming out of that report, and how soon that will come out?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I hear you. In fact, I think that was a very important report. If governments and businesses respond as we should and will, it's a real chance for change within the transportation sector.

Transportation was identified as a priority within the Accessible Canada Act. It's partially because of the kinds of things that came out through that report. We are looking at different sectors of.... I'm sorry. I don't know transport language very well. I apologize. We're looking at different modes of transport.

A good example is that, last Friday, Minister Alghabra and I released a statement on accessible airline travel, announcing that we will be hosting a summit on accessible airline travel and be working with the CTA to beef up regulatory processes around—I was going to say injured mobility devices—damaged mobility devices. I'm personifying them. I apologize.

There's a lot going on, and I'm happy to.... Let's talk about that, because there's a lot going on in that space.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm going to turn this over to my colleague, Ms. Ferreri.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, again, to the ministers.

I guess I would go back to Minister Gould when we're talking about child care, the labour shortage, and the fact that one in three children is not getting access—these child care deserts we're hearing about repeatedly.

The Conservatives put forward an amendment during the committee stage that was pretty specific in terms of getting data collection to understand the available child care spaces, the numbers on wait-lists and the progress made to reduce wait-lists for families, and also seeking to prepare an annual report on the progress made, because we really need the data to understand this. However, the Liberals voted it down. If you want to talk about creating these spots, why vote an amendment like that down?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

In the legislation, there's already a provision for an annual report from the minister to Parliament, so again, it's about the coherence of the legislation. Through the Canada-wide early learning and child care agreements that we signed with provinces and territories, they are required to provide this data to the federal government, and that's complementary to the legislation.

Again, it's about coherence and not doubling up.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thanks, Minister.

I guess it's just that, when these parents are out there, they feel like they are screaming into a vacuum. They don't feel heard, because they just don't have access to child care. I think there are a lot—

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

That is why we're doing this, yes—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I haven't finished.

I think there are so many parents who are so disappointed with what sounded like this amazing program, because it does sound amazing.

It sounds amazing, but there are no spots there and there's no labour force. It's actually having a “Matthew effect”. We have critics and professionals saying this. The Matthew effect is that an increase in public provision ends up advantaging high-income groups rather than low-income groups. We have on record, from the committee, Ms. Leila. Do you know what she is saying? They are absolutely certain that this is hurting the most low-income families.

There is no access, and unless this bill is changed to include a better labour supply and until you include all of these pillars, you are going to have these child care deserts. I know you're going to say that there are 250,000 spots, but that's not the reality on the ground. That's just what you're saying.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Actually, Ms. Ferreri, if we didn't have this legislation and we didn't have this plan, they wouldn't exist either. The whole point of moving forward is that the market has failed.

We hear those families. That's precisely why we put in this $30-billion investment, and it's precisely why we're working with provinces and territories to grow the number of spaces available. I know those families. I meet with them on a regular basis. We want to build those spaces. I hope we can continue to count on Conservatives' support to advance Bill C-35 so that we can deliver on these initiatives for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri.

Now we have Mr. Van Bynen or Mr. Long for five minutes, to conclude.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Sure. I'll go ahead. Thank you.

We've heard a lot about the social enterprise funding that was announced yesterday. We're hearing also now that there's a desperate need for child care spaces. Is there any way the social enterprise funding could apply itself to the child care spaces?

I know there's a huge need, and I know we've been making a ton of progress in my community, but I'm thinking about leveraging some of these other programs and whether it's possible to do that.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Absolutely, and look, the social finance fund doesn't pick specific sectors that it's going to invest in, but certainly child care is one that could take advantage of it as a social enterprise that's reinvesting in community and having a social impact. In fact, as you know, the YMCAs and YWCAs are great examples of how they provide child care through a not-for-profit initiative and then reinvest back into providing social services for their communities. Absolutely, there's an opportunity there.

Perhaps I could reiterate the point that the Canada-wide early learning and child care initiative has four pillars. Those pillars are enshrined in Bill C-35, but they're also enshrined in each of the agreements we signed with provinces and territories. Affordability is obviously an important one, but so too is accessibility. Creating those additional spaces is incredibly important, and it's something that provinces and territories are working on right now.

It's not as quick as doing the affordability piece, because you have to do the hard work of determining where and who is going to provide those spaces, but in just a year and a half, 50,000 additional spaces have been created, and we're working towards that additional 200,000 over the next two and a half years, which is something that would not have been done had it not been for this federal initiative.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

To a large extent, there are two dynamics to accessibility. One is the availability of the space, and the second piece is the appropriateness of the space for children with disabilities. I've seen a huge amount of investment in the day care centres in my riding of Newmarket—Aurora.

How is that program rolling out?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

There are a couple of things.

First, the four pillars are affordability, accessibility, high quality and inclusion.

We've done a couple of things. Inclusion is baked into the Canada-wide early learning and child care initiative. A province like Saskatchewan, for example, is really leading Canada when it comes to building inclusive child care spaces and making sure that inclusion is front and centre in the work it's doing when it comes to expansion.

Also, then, we have the enabling accessibility fund specifically for child care. I've had the opportunity to visit a number of the centres that received funding and created spaces that are sensitive to children with neurodiversity who have physical accessibility needs, and they are really trying to make sure the child care they're providing is available to everyone.

What we hear, particularly from parents of children with accessibility challenges, is that it's really hard for them to find a space that, first of all, will take their child. Then, second of all, it's really hard to find a space that has the required supports to help them thrive. We're trying to change that now, and we're seeing some incredible progress along the way.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Minister, I want to touch on affordability.

I had a constituent come into my office a couple of weeks back who was very concerned about the 41¢ in carbon tax that they have to pay. I sat down with him and asked, “When's the 41¢? It's 2030. It's not 2023.” That was number one.

Number two, we did the math on the 14¢. Compared to the savings from the ELCC, the early learning and child care act that was passed across the country, compared to the savings that the dental program will give families across the country and compared to the changes that the Canada child benefit will give families, you're talking literally thousands and thousands of dollars versus $73 a year. That's what we ended up calculating. The Conservatives don't ever mention the rebate that families get too.

Can you touch on the affordability measures that we've done for Canadians that the Conservatives voted against?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

It's really quite astonishing, actually. If you look at from 2015 to today, we've actually cut child poverty in half in Canada, and we've cut poverty rates in half, which is one of the single largest jumps in Canadian history in the last seven and a half years. It's quite impressive.

If you look at a low-income child under the age of six, the lowest-income child, that family could get up to $7,000 a year in Canada child benefit payments, and if their child is enrolled in child care, that could be an additional $6,000 a year in savings. This is really tangible, and then if you add the dental benefit on to that, that's another $650 a year. If you add the climate action incentive rebate on there, we're talking about hundreds of dollars more.

It is really something, the amount of support that this government has provided to low-income Canadians. It doesn't mean that there isn't more work to do. It doesn't mean that people aren't still struggling, but in terms of the actual tangible impact on people, the numbers don't lie. It's quite impressive.

What I would say is that in my travels across the country, what I've heard consistently from parents is that the child care investments and the Canada child benefit are life-changing for them. They say it's transformational, and they're so unbelievably grateful for it, because it's making a difference in the life they can provide for their children every single day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Mr. Long.

That concludes this, unless Mr. Morrice has one question. We have a minute.

Is the committee okay with Mr. Morrice having a question?

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

It's two minutes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Morrice, you have about a minute and a half.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

It's a minute and a half. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ministers. I was going to ask about Bill C-22. I don't understand why we've had an entire constituency week to study the amendments from the Senate, and we're waiting for them to come back.

My question for Minister O'Regan is on climate. You were talking about sustainable jobs. Newfoundland and Labrador is a wind energy powerhouse. We could be creating thousands of good-paying wind energy jobs. The UN Secretary-General has called new fossil fuel infrastructure “moral and economic madness”.

I'm curious if your position on Bay du Nord has changed in light of the huge potential of wind energy in that province and the ability to be investing in the jobs of tomorrow there.