Human Resources Committee on Oct. 18th, 2023

[Michel Cantin]

The more you use it, the more you familiarize yourself with the site. It's well done, but there are some minor problems. For example, when I recently went onto the site, it asked me for a tracking code. I don't remember what that was about and I eventually lost my page. If you take too much time, you lose the page and have to start the process over. At times I've had to rewrite entire job descriptions and all kinds of other information that the bureaucracy requires be included. These are minor points that could be corrected.

It's obviously easier for Ms. Thomas, who's used to this kind of site. I have to say though that I'm gradually getting good with it too. So it's workable. It isn't the end of the world.

People always seem to complicate things. Why simplify when you can complicate them? That's often the message that seems to be sent. It's hard to simplify things, from what I can see, but they should be simple. We could skip a lot of it.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Yes, I agree. I also agree, I think, that when things are simplified, it takes away a barrier to people accessing the program.

I also want to quickly ask both of you this. I know my office has heard a lot of complaints on timing. Sometimes the launch of the program doesn't give enough time to get the application in, or when you find out that you have been accepted for funds, sometimes the timing doesn't seem right for when kids are out of university and that type of thing.

I'll just start with Ms. Thomas first. Can tell me if you've had any problems with timing in that area? Then I'll follow up with Mr. Cantin, please, very quickly.

[Kim Thomas]

Since the program never launches on a specific date, it's very hard to know what to expect. We're always on tenterhooks in early January, wondering whether the launch will be on January 15 or January 30, for example, because we have roughly a month to submit all our applications after the program launches.

After that, the time we spend waiting for a response is never the same. We can't be sure we'll get an answer on April 15, for example. Sometimes it comes in early April, other times at the end of April, and that affects how we reserve facilities. This may be true for Mr. Cantin as well. We have to commit to the cities and tell them when we'll need the pool. We have a deadline for cancelling those reservations. If we cancel too late, we're charged for it. Consequently, we don't know whether we'll need the pool until we've received a response to our application. If the answer comes too late and we're ultimately informed that funding has been granted for only one position, as was the case last year, we can't hold the camp and have to pay a penalty for cancelling.

So it's very hard not having fixed dates. The program's dates should be fixed. For example, you could require that the applications be received no later than January 15 and that responses be sent out by April 15 at the latest. That would make it much easier for the organizations to manage these applications and properly plan their activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk and Ms. Thomas.

We'll now go to Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Mr. Cantin, thank you for your contribution today.

My question is very general, but I think it will be useful to the committee.

Do you have one or two key recommendations for the committee? You discussed a number of points, but do you have one or two key recommendations for us?

[Michel Cantin]

I think the most important recommendation is that you continue advertising the program and make it easier to apply to it. At the same time, there should be a major effort to make the program accessible and to attract as many people as possible. Where we live, that's a pool of 600,000 persons. It would be a good idea to adapt the application mechanism to the place in question. An effort has to be made to provide increasing numbers of jobs through the program. This is in fact what will happen: increasing numbers of students will use this program. If it is simplified and a continuing effort is made to advertise it, organizations will submit applications, and it will be possible to get a great deal of work done. So I'd like you to work on that part of the program.

I think the rest of the program is very good. It's a good program. As we said, the important thing is to maintain the budgets. They should always be structured in such a way that there is a progression. Money is always the essential factor, but I'm sure that cuts can be made in many other areas and money invested in this program.

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Yes. There's also a video.

You had a lot to say about accessibility. Is that generally a technology-related problem? I'm thinking, for example, of the website and the fact that everything has to be done online.

[Michel Cantin]

I don't think so. In my case, for example, it took time for me to wake up and realize the program existed.

I was on the board of two organizations, one of which had applied for funding for one position, while the other had filed no applications. As a board member, I didn't immediately realize that. I wondered at one point why another organization had received support from the program but not mine. I asked one of the employees of my organization to file an application, to see what that might do. We ultimately received funding for one position. So I told my friend to file an application if he wanted his organization to get assistance as well. You have to understand that there are a lot of organizations.

I realize the development potential. The budgets of our organization, which is at the regional level, is $9,000. That makes no sense. That's a small budget for a regional organization. I have a $70,000 budget with the local club. The regional organization had been content to file applications for a number of years. When I joined it and saw that its budget was only $9,000, I said I wanted someone to be made responsible for funding. I wanted the organization to have a bigger budget so it could develop the region. That's when I realized that our activities would be limited if budgets were cut. So I'd like the budget to be maintained.

To sum up, I recommend that the budgets be increased, that the program be more broadly advertised and that it be easier to file applications.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you once again, Mr. Cantin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A question about funding was asked earlier. This is something that I've observed in my riding of Thérèse‑De Blainville, in the Lower Laurentians. On the one hand, you have the number of positions that organizations request, and on the other hand, there's the number of weeks. Organizations generally request 10 or 12 weeks, as the program provides, unless I'm mistaken, but they are granted eight.

What are the ramifications of that? Considering your mission or your projects in general, are those eight weeks enough or is a larger number of weeks one of the improvements that should be made to the program?

That question is for both of you. I'll give you one minute each to answer it.

[Michel Cantin]

That's caused problems for me this year. It doesn't work if youth start working in May because our busy season is in July, August and September, and I don't want them to stop working during that period. So I thought I could work around the problem by having them work fewer hours per week, but over more weeks. So I offered them 24 hours a week. However, I was told later that I wasn't allowed to do that because the minimum was 30 hours a week. That's when I started doing what I mentioned earlier: I complicated the process. I had to come up with all kinds of schemes for it to work.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

That's because you needed those employees until September.

[Michel Cantin]

Yes, that's right.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I see.

What about you, Ms. Thomas?

[Kim Thomas]

My answer would be somewhat the same.

Our needs start in May because we have to set up the program for the summer. We generally hire our students starting in May. They then work on a part-time basis, particularly on weekends. Starting in late June, when school is out, they can work full time until late August.

So our full-time weeks are in July and August. Before that, we need to have the option of having them work part time to prepare the program. However, somewhat as Mr. Cantin said, we're stuck with the program requirement of a minimum of 30 hours per week. However, you can't have students who haven't completed their school year work 30 hours a week. That doesn't work.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Is that a recommendation that could be made, that there should be more flexibility regarding hours worked?

[Michel Cantin]

Absolutely. You're absolutely right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Zarrillo will end this round with two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to carry on with that theme because I heard from my community, too, that they'd like to be able to do a bit of training before they're fully in the role.

I will ask this question of Mr. Cantin and then Ms. Thomas. Did you have to pay for that training? Did they just come and volunteer, or is that something that needs to be incorporated into the eight weeks?

[Kim Thomas]

We do incorporate that in the weeks.

[Michel Cantin]

Canada summer jobs provides training at the outset. It's very good. It's done via Zoom, and it facilitates the work in our case.

I don't know if that's what you meant, Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm just wondering if you needed to offer training.

[Michel Cantin]

Yes. Being able to have training is definitely something else that would be very good to add to the program.

I tried to go to the Canada summer jobs office on Chomedey Boulevard, only to realize that it hadn't been there for a long time. Even though I was receiving documents from that address, the program office was now somewhere else. When I went there, I was told that I couldn't just show up like that and that I had to make an appointment.

So it isn't simple. It's definitely a very good idea to have training.