Human Resources Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[Ben Quinn]

Thank you for that question.

I would say that for most camps in B.C., an eight-week contract is not long enough for a standard position. Many camps offer one- or two-week training programs that are full 35-hour or 40-hour training programs, which are often not included in a grant for these positions. If you multiply that payroll cost by 30, 40, 50 youth you're employing, that's just a cost that the camp has to absorb in order to train the staff adequately to run these camps. I would love to see contracts of nine or 10 weeks specifically for summer camps programs, instead of the eight weeks.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Quinn, for your testimony today. I was the member of Parliament who had to make the phone call to say that your funding had been cut by 50%. I maintained the share of the funding—right around 10% is the Sasamat funding—but it wasn't a nice conversation and it wasn't nice news I had to deliver on such short notice. As you said, we didn't even know as members of Parliament until days before that this was happening. I share the concerns that one of my other colleagues mentioned. We get news on a Friday, and I tried to get a hold of you on the Friday, because I didn't want you to go into the weekend and then on Monday you'd get an email from the central office.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you the time to share any additional recommendations you have for us, because I think we've heard loud and clear that eight weeks isn't enough. We know for sure that the 50% cut in funding really impacted communities and not-for-profits like yours, as well as charities. I just wanted to give you this opportunity to see if there are any other recommendations you would make at this time, so it's on the record, because this is our opportunity to make the Canada summer jobs program better.

[Ben Quinn]

Thank you so much.

Yes, there are lots of opportunities for other flexibilities. I think one of the big ones that we've hit home today, especially from the other witnesses, is the opportunity for flexible funding for positions that are not full-time. Lots of camps employ many youth full time throughout the summer, but there are also youth who work part time, 10 to 20 hours a week, and those are not eligible positions. I think flexibility to do that as well outside the summer...although I recognize it's a summer jobs program.

Those are the two flexibilities that I would really want to stress here. As well, I did mention earlier that when an employee is unable to continue their Canada summer jobs contract for whatever reason—maybe they're resigning or being dismissed—offering flexibility to utilize that funding in another position at the camp that maybe wasn't in the included list of funded positions or applying it to another person would be another one.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I'm going to move to Mr. Cougler, but I want to thank you for all the work you do. I know that you've recently stepped up into a new position, and I want everybody on the screen who might be watching or listening to this to know how important Sasamat is to our community and how many generations of kids go there as campers and then end up working there, so I appreciate all that.

Mr. Cougler, it's nice to see you again. I hope that you will be coming out west at some point soon.

I also want to give you this opportunity. Is there anything else on the recommendation list that you want to get on the record?

[Kevin Cougler]

Thank you for that, and it's nice to see you as well, Ms. Zarrillo.

I'd like Andrew to talk about this a little bit. Madame Chabot talked about what happens, what the implications are, when full funding or close to full funding is not received. From a training perspective, for STEM Camp, it means the difference between being able to train staff adequately for five days, perhaps in person, and switching to virtual, which is a lot cheaper. There's a real implication with that in terms of what we see in customer service calls and supporting staff once we get into the summer.

Andrew is our director of operations, and he can speak to that a little more coherently and with more expertise than I can.

Andrew, would you mind commenting on what you see?

[Andrew Downing, Director of Operations, STEM Camp]

Sure, Kevin, and thanks to the committee for allowing me to appear here today.

Absolutely, it's very impactful, the amount of time that we have to train our staff. Last year, we were able to do five days in person. That was really a test for our company to see what the impact would be for the experience of campers and the experience of staff. It was a five-day in-person training session. It was very expensive, but it was a great test. During the first two weeks, I was waiting for the shoe to drop and thinking, “Why am I not getting calls about things falling apart across the province?” It was very impactful, and there really is something to be said about in-person training, hands-on with all your staff across the province.

This year, because of some budget constraints with fewer CSJ dollars received, we moved to more of a hybrid model, so we had online modules that we created and some in-person training, but certainly the first two weeks of camp were a lot more hectic, both for customer service staff and for our staff at camps. A lot of that came down as well to the staffing levels of camp, because where we had eight to 10 positions covered in previous years, we were working with five or six.

It's a real challenge. Having more dollars available for training would be very impactful for our business, for sure, certainly for the experience of kids at camp and for the staff who are there to take care of those kids.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have 15 seconds.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I wonder if you could comment on the number of applicants this year. Did you see a change in the applicants, now that we're post-COVID or kind of post-COVID?

[Andrew Downing]

I would say there's a slight uptick, yes. Certainly in 2021, even a bit in 2022, there were fewer applicants. I would say for this past season, the 2023 season, that we did see a slight uptick, but we still find it very challenging, starting in January, to start camps in July with 400 staff. There are some challenges there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

We have Mrs. Falk for five minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'd like to thank each of our witnesses for taking the time to be here and for sharing your testimony, because your first-hand experience with the Canada summer jobs program is very valued as we undertake this study.

Mr. Cougler, you made a comment in your opening remarks regarding re-establishing Service Canada checks. I was just wondering if you could explain what that looked like. Have they not come back at all post-COVID?

[Kevin Cougler]

As mentioned, we've been doing this since 2016, so I'll go all the way back to that year. There used to be a series of checks where Service Canada would call our office and request for me to go out to sites across the province, as well as the staff, and to meet with one of their representatives, and they would have one-on-one meetings with me or with the staff. Over time, I would request that I didn't have to go out to 50 different locations during the course of the summer, because it was a little time-consuming and the costs were prohibitive.

The other thing that Service Canada used to do was call our office and ask for copies of pay slips and proof that the recipients of the program were getting paid according to the terms of the contract. This adds a certain amount of extra work for my staff, of course, but I think it's important from a taxpayers' perspective to know that those dollars are being adequately and properly disseminated for the intention of the wage subsidy.

In the last couple of years, my staff are telling me that these visits are not really happening, and there aren't a lot of checks by Service Canada anymore. I have the sneaky suspicion that it's just because, after the pandemic, it takes some time to build up some resources at Service Canada to be able to do that, and it takes a long time for my office to be able to follow through.

That's been our experience, and we'd like to see some measure of increased controls for the program.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

Because you have been accessing this program since 2016, I want to ask you if you have noticed that the application process has stayed the same or if it has gotten easier. Is it in plain language? Have you noticed a difference at all in the application process?

[Kevin Cougler]

My experience will be based on the size of our organization. Perhaps Ms. Gillespie might concur with me here.

It used to be that I would spend four weeks in December, over my Christmas holidays, writing individual applications across 50-odd constituencies in order to meet the deadline. When the copy and edit function came into the GCOS system—to be able to copy one application and edit it for another constituency, modifying it slightly—that probably saved me about 75% of the time it used to take.

I think there have been some improvements. Certainly the introduction of the GCOS system has been a godsend in terms of being able to adequately file and track applications. That's been fantastic.

I think there's been marked improvement over the years, in my experience.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Would you say that when the launch of the application process happens, enough time is provided to complete that, given the copy-and-paste and that type of thing? Is that still adequate time to apply?

[Kevin Cougler]

Yes, absolutely it is.

We prepare ahead of time. We do our homework with all of the information, so we're ready ahead of time. By the time the application period opens, we seem to be able to get it done within a week.

In my opinion, I think there's more than enough time to write those applications.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Quinn, what about you, given that you may be a smaller organization, as opposed to STEM Camp?

[Ben Quinn]

Yes, comparatively in terms of size, we can often write that grant application within one day. It's a one-day event for us over here. We do spend a few days beforehand preparing the application in writing separately, and then we're often able to go in and just get it done. It hasn't ever really been a huge issue for us.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay, thanks.

How about you, Ms. Gillespie?

[Krista Gillespie]

There's not much to add. Certainly we have seen those improvements that have already been noted, which were more than welcome. It certainly streamlined the process significantly. We have ample time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

We have Mr. Coteau for five minutes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for joining us today. Thank you for the work you do to help young people get the experience they need to transition into the workforce with experience and a bit more knowledge about a specific career they may choose.

Ms. Gillespie, when you talked at the beginning, I really appreciated the fact that a lot of your emphasis was on the development of young people by going through the program. Your testimony seemed to focus on young people and how the program could respond to them. The five recommendations you made, like everyone else, spoke to how to improve the program in the administration and pieces like that, but they did really position it around young people.

You mentioned mental health and sick days. Do you have any statistics or numbers with regard to what that looks like for an organization like yours? How many would be required?

For the second part of that question, during the COVID pandemic, there were a lot of challenges for young people. If this program was in operation during the summer, during that time period, did you see that it actually contributed even more so to the well-being of young people, in your experience?

[Krista Gillespie]

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll start with apologies, because I don't have specific statistics. Certainly it is something that we track through our HR, so I could provide something at a further date in terms of the number of absences.

We have seen marked changes in our staff and in our youth as they come back to work, both through the pandemic and then postpandemic. We are seeing a change in the needs of our younger staff. We're seeing that working five days a week and 40 hours is sometimes too much for them. It's too much of a challenge. At the YMCA, we do have two paid emergency days for employees when they need to take a day off or have an appointment or just need a mental health wellness day. I think it's important that we start recognizing the need for a work environment that supports them taking care of themselves.

Although I don't have specific statistics, I think we have seen not only a move for a reduction in wanting to work the full 40 hours a week, but also a move for staff wanting to work part time or on call. Because the program doesn't allow us to go below 30 hours, it really reduces the number of employees we can have with a more flexible work schedule.

Have I answered your question?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Yes. That was a great answer. Thank you so much.

I do appreciate the recommendations you've made. Thank you again.

Actually, I'm going to ask you one other question, if I can get a quick answer so that I can go on to STEM Camp. You mentioned international students. Can you talk a bit more about why you picked that as a recommendation? What are you seeing out there that actually speaks to that and feeds into that recommendation?