Human Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

It's not enough to talk about affordability, we must be able to sustain it, meaning ensure that it remains affordable through the provision of services.

Does CMHC has a strategy to keep housing affordable?

[Romy Bowers]

With respect to the funding from the national housing strategy, which supports those Canadians most in need, we have very strict requirements regarding the level of affordability and the length of affordability.

With respect to other types of housing, which are more market-oriented, we have fewer affordability requirements. However, in exchange for low-cost loans, we have requirements with respect to affordability versus the market and certain levels of energy efficiency or climate compatibility, as well as accessibility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We'll go to Madame Zarrillo for six minutes, please.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will have some questions for Ms. Gillis, but first I'd like to follow up on some of the comments that Ms. Bowers made.

You spoke about collaboration and beginning conversations at the very beginning of processes. I wonder, Ms. Bowers, if I could get an updated contact list for western Canada's CMHC, because there are projects in Port Moody—Coquitlam that are ready to go, but we haven't had access to meetings or to make those connections. If I could have that, it would be amazing.

[Romy Bowers]

Yes. We can certainly provide that.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

This question is for Madam Gillis.

I am so happy to see you here today, and I am so pleased to see the collaboration and the joining together of the ministry for housing and the ministry for infrastructure and communities. This is because I agree with you 100% that there are other social infrastructure pieces that are necessary, including transit and community centres, but our focus today is on housing.

My question is based on the national housing strategy. Homelessness has been growing while this strategy has been in place, so this is a failing of the housing strategy. I want to understand what Infrastructure Canada did to alert the government when it saw the rising homelessness.

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you for the question.

We look at homelessness, as Infrastructure Canada has been responsible for the policy and the program Reaching Home since they came over in November 2021. We have been very active in looking at different opportunities.

One of them is looking at and doing research with a number of communities, called an action research program, to understand.... After you have Reaching Home in place, which requires coordinated access by name lists, this program provides systems and tools to community entities across the country to be able to help them help themselves on their priorities. That is one area of understanding: What more do communities need in working with us as we look to move forward?

We also launched the veteran homelessness program so that we will have a program dedicated directly to veterans. It has closed, and we're reviewing the applications. Also, during COVID, in budget 2022 we increased the funding for Reaching Home by another $562 million, and community entities will be imminently informed of their top-up for that amount.

Those are a few things we've done fairly recently with regard to how we address this really important issue within the country.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

You will remember little Alan Kurdi, the Syrian boy who passed away many years ago. The family of Alan Kurdi is in my riding. Just recently, some additional family members have come to Canada. They are in a hotel for 30 days as refugees and have been able to get an extension of another 30 days, but they have nowhere to go. They will be homeless in the next 30 days.

My question is whether Infrastructure Canada knows how many empty homes there are in Canada.

[Kelly Gillis]

No, we do not know how many empty homes there are in Canada. Through Reaching Home, we work very closely with the non-profit sector as well as municipalities in supporting their priorities. Through a community advisory board, they look at what's happening within their community and make the decisions on how best to support the people who are in precarious or vulnerable situations in their community. It's not the federal government telling them what to do or how to do it. They have the best knowledge of their community context to make the most informed decisions.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I would just suggest that part of the research project you talked about earlier should be a better understanding of how many homes are sitting empty in Canada.

My second question is this: Does Infrastructure Canada—and maybe CMHC, if Ms. Bowers would like to answer—know how much housing stock is sitting in short-term rentals like Airbnb or Vrbo? Is there a number?

[Kelly Gillis]

I'll defer to Ms. Bowers on that one.

[Romy Bowers]

This is an area where there is a data gap. Based on best available data, we think there are probably about 30,000 units across the country. Like other areas of housing, this is an area where the data is provided by Statistics Canada. I think much more needs to be done in terms of increasing the robustness of this data.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

You know that in B.C. they've recently changed legislation around short-term rentals. We know that there has been movement already and that some people who invested in multiple units are starting to think about divesting.

You mentioned, Ms. Bowers, that there's not enough labour in Canada to build the number of houses that are needed. Is there any discussion about being able to repatriate, or for the federal government to buy, some of these empty condominiums that will come onto the market in B.C. and potentially across the country if other provinces take this initiative?

[Romy Bowers]

I can't comment on initiatives to buy these units by the federal government, but I can comment that if there are indeed 30,000 Airbnb units available, if they do come available on the market, they will increase the supply available for Canadians.

I would like to note that the supply shortage in Canada is quite acute. We need millions more units of housing. Actions on Airbnbs are certainly constructive and can be helpful, but I think we really need to focus on increasing the supply of housing on a much larger scale.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

My last question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That will be for the next round, Ms. Zarrillo.

We'll go to Ms. Gray for five minutes, please.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

During the previous appearance of the Minister of Housing, on September 27, with the CMHC, the minister told the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle that he would be “happy to review the process by which [CMHC] bonuses are provided”.

Has the minister issued you a directive regarding CMHC bonuses?

[Romy Bowers]

No. I'm not aware of this.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

If not issuing you a directive, has the minister come to you since that September 27 meeting to have a discussion around CMHC bonuses?

[Romy Bowers]

With respect to CMHC bonuses and our salary structure, we are an independent Crown corporation. Our HR practices are the purview of our board of directors. Any changes to our salary compensation scheme are under their purview.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you.

Have you started your own internal review, then, on the bonus structure of CMHC and its employees?

[Romy Bowers]

Like many companies, we review our pay and salary structure on an annual basis. We do this to ensure that the pay is appropriate based on market conditions.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

Over the past eight years, only 12 new homes have been built on federal lands where CMHC was expecting to build 672. Is that correct?

[Romy Bowers]

I'm sorry. I don't recognize those numbers. We have an initiative called the federal lands initiative, a $200-million investment over 10 years to create 4,000 units. We've allocated about $169 million of the $200 million. Currently, we've committed to almost 4,000 units.

I'm not clear on where your numbers are coming from with regard to this.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That was testimony that came through another committee—at the Senate, actually.

For my next question, housing starts are down year over year, are they not?