Human Resources Committee on Nov. 6th, 2023

[Anthony Durocher]

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that it's impacting one way or another. I will say this. One of our roles is to advocate to government for pro-competitive rules and regulations, because government can create barriers to industries. One area where we would advise in these new nascent spaces, as an example, is to make sure that any new regulations don't unduly impact smaller players, because they can be disproportionate.

If you're going to regulate, smaller players have much fewer resources they can devote to compliance and to the regulatory regime, so that's an important area where I think we would advise governments at all levels that, if you're going to regulate AI, be mindful of the potential undue burden on smaller players to make sure that it's as level a playing field as it can be in the sector.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

Chair, I would like to pass my remaining time to MP Aitchison.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have one minute, Mr. Aitchison.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

That's all I need, Mr. Chair.

I have a motion I'd like to move today. I move:

That, given that the Governor of the Bank of Canada recently remarked that “supply shortages in our housing market are boosting prices for shelter”, the committee concur in the Governor’s remarks and report them to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Mr. Fragiskatos, we've suspended the time on the questioning, and Mr. Aitchison's motion was in order, so I had to recognize it.

Go ahead, Mr. Fragiskatos, on the motion.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I'll be very quick because we do have witnesses here, Mr. Chair.

As Mr. Aitchison knows, this will prompt a concurrence debate in the House, and I suspect very strongly that it is meant to distract and take time away from the government's legislative agenda. For that reason, the Liberal side will not be supporting the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Go ahead, Mrs. Gray, on the motion.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For Canadians, there is little else that is more important than the housing crisis that we're having. Any discussions we can have on the housing crisis are incredibly important. That's why we're bringing this motion forward, so we can continue to have meaningful discussions and debates in the House of Commons on the housing crisis in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Now we have Ms. Ferreri on the motion.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is in response to my colleague Mr. Fragiskatos' comment.

Even if what you said was true—that this would be a distraction or a concurrence issue—you are the government. The biggest issue, without a doubt, is housing. This motion is saying that we listened to Canadians, we know that things are bad and we're going to do something about it.

According to the Globe, a Royal Bank of Canada report published last week estimated that:

...around $900-billion worth of mortgages at Canadian chartered banks—roughly 60 per cent of outstanding mortgages on their books—will renew between 2024 and 2026.

Depending on the path of interest rates, the average monthly payments on these mortgages could jump 32 per cent next year and as much as 48 per cent in 2026, the report estimates.

Mr. Chair, here is my point in saying this: There are politics in this place, one hundred per cent, but if you are not getting the emails, the phone calls, the messages of despair and suffering that we are, I don't know whether you're not answering your phone or what. This is of the utmost urgency.

Our witnesses today are talking about AI. Do you know where we're sitting for productivity in Canada? It's like that. That's going to hurt our mortgages. That's going to hurt people. This is all downloaded to Canadians who have otherwise never paid attention to politics in their lives.

I'm actually making eye contact with you to urge you to pass this motion. Honestly, I came here because people are suffering. You came to Peterborough. I hope you went to Wolfe Street. I hope you saw the people in encampments. I hope you watch social media. I hope you see what is happening to people. They can't feed their families.

Yes, there are politics. That's fine, but we have a duty because we were elected to serve people. Please pass this motion.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Chabot, you may speak on the motion.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, are we talking about the supply shortage comment by the Auditor General's...?

Okay, because the comments previously were about the other motion that was proposed. I just want to be clear on which motion we are speaking to.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Ms. Chabot, you may speak on the motion.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I got my answer, since I had the same question. As we know, the Conservatives moved two motions and you're speaking of a single motion. Which one do you mean, exactly? I've not heard the terms of the motion.

Furthermore, starting at noon, after we've heard from the witnesses, we will have one hour to discuss committee business. Would it be possible to discuss that at noon?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Zarrillo has her hand up.

Mr. Aitchison moved a motion in his time allotment. I have to allow the motion to be discussed and voted on.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have the floor on the motion.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll just make sure that I am speaking to the right one. This is the one about the Governor of the Bank of Canada's remarks. Is that correct? Yes.

I've said before to my colleagues on this committee that I am more than happy to actually have the governor come to speak about the impacts the banks have had on the housing crisis. I think about the fact that we have the Competition Bureau here today. We know that the big banks in Canada are surprisingly aligned in mortgage rates in this country.

I know that many people were advised not to lock into their mortgages at the beginning of last year, when we saw the mortgage rates rising. I feel strongly that this is about sales and sales targets. I know a number of people who work in the banking industry in Canada who, every single morning, are basically driven to meeting a sales target that day. I think the banks have lost sight of serving consumers. I certainly know many families in my riding that have had to change their living conditions because of these rising interest rates.

I'm sorry to say that I won't support this motion. However, I certainly would support having the Governor of the Bank of Canada come to this committee and be accountable for the fact that so many people can no longer afford their mortgage payments and account for whether they were involved in making sure that people didn't lock in when they knew they were going to be raising interest rates over time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

Next, we have Mr. Aitchison, on his motion.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I actually think this could be an opportunity to start that process by getting the Governor of the Bank of Canada here to our committee, so I would encourage my colleague, Ms. Zarrillo, to actually support that.

I'm a little disappointed to hear my colleague, Mr. Fragiskatos, say that a debate about the housing crisis in this country, with new information from the Governor of the Bank of Canada causing a concurrence debate in the House of Commons, is a waste of time. This is a crisis. If the House of Commons is anything, it has to be a place where regular Canadian issues can be elevated, debated and discussed. That's what I'm calling for. Frankly, I'm shocked he would say that it's a waste of time.

I would like to call for a vote right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Just quickly, Mr. Chair, the record is clear. At no point did I say it would be a waste of time. In fact, we regularly debate these matters in the House of Commons, which only proves my point. These are political games on the part of my colleagues, but we'll move to the vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

A vote has been called.

Seeing no further discussion, we'll vote on the motion of Mr. Aitchison.

You're all familiar with the motion you're voting on. Is it clear?

The clerk will read it.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. David Chandonnet]

The motion reads:

That, given that the Governor of the Bank of Canada recently remarked that “supply shortages in our housing market are boosting prices for shelter”, the committee concur in the Governor’s remarks and report them to the House.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We have 46 seconds left.

Mrs. Falk, please go ahead.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Just to follow up on your last comment, has the bureau identified any legislative policies or conversations that currently, if introduced, would negatively impact our small businesses or even Canada's advantage within the AI sector?

[Anthony Durocher]

No, I don't think we've identified any specific ones. This continues to be a nascent space, where people are examining the appropriate ways to regulate. These are principles we would recommend policy-makers keep in mind to make sure we are fostering a competitive ecosystem.