Human Resources Committee on Dec. 4th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Where is the “given”? You did not continue. The motion—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

It's the first line: “given that: (a) the carbon tax threatens”. This is in the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It's “the income security of farmers, farm workers, and employment in the agricultural sector”. You've strayed several times beyond that.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

In the riding I represent, Mr. Chair, a lot of farmers have families. They're parents. They're energy workers who have to work in the energy sector to supplement their agriculture income. This absolutely matters. We have to recognize—

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

—that the farmers are the ones who grow our food.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mrs. Falk, there's a point of order raised by Ms. Zarrillo.

Ms. Zarrillo, go ahead on your point of order.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm feeling particularly uncomfortable with this entire conversation. As a parliamentarian, I would like to raise the fact that I feel this is contempt of Parliament. This motion is asking us to influence, intimidate and block fellow parliamentarians.

I wonder if we could get a ruling on that. I'm feeling particularly uncomfortable being involved in anything that is trying to intimidate or put obstacles in front of the Senate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

I will have to take your point of order under advisement and report back to the committee.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

There's a point of order from me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Go ahead, Mr. Coteau.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I want to talk about process here.

As a committee, we agree on our schedule and on how we move forward on items. Mr. Van Bynen's study was put in place a year ago. He was—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Coteau, could you bring yourself to the specific point of order you are raising? Process is not one.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I was going to bring up the point that we've accommodated the Conservatives to prioritize what they would like to do, but this tactic constantly being used to score political points and delay the process—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Coteau. Unfortunately, that is not a point of order.

I will return to Mrs. Falk, and I will move to—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a point of order on that, Mr. Chair, if I may, before you return to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You're calling a point of order. Clearly state the point of order.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

The point of order is this: What political points? It is totally inappropriate to make accusations like that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mrs. Falk, that is not a point of order.

I'll return to Mrs. Falk.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Clearly state your point of order, Mrs. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My point of order is on Ms. Zarrillo's point of order referencing intimidation. I want to address that.

There is no one intimidating anyone here. I'm offended by that. This is a motion calling for the committee to do something. There's absolutely no intimidation occurring here. I want to address that, because it was brought up here, Mr. Chair.

There is no intimidation occurring in any form.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

Ms. Zarrillo raised a point of order on a matter that I said I would take under advisement and report back on.

I will return to Mrs. Falk.

Mrs. Falk, I'll remind you, while you have the floor and are speaking, to keep your comments relevant to the motion introduced by your colleague Mrs. Gray.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Back to the motion, we know—and I believe we just talked about this in the House as well last week—that the Senate is expected to vote on Bill C-234, which was to remove the carbon tax from grain drying and barn heating. As I stated previously, many of the farmers I represent are also employed in other areas in order to supplement their agricultural income, and many of them have families. We know we're farm families. We know that the House talked about this last week, and that this would be a big deal—to remove the carbon tax from grain drying and barn heating.

I've heard from many constituents and Canadians across the country on how much the carbon tax is costing them. Some of our farmers have outrageous bills. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars are just going to the carbon tax, which has not reduced carbon emissions in the atmosphere and hasn't done anything for the environment. However, it has hurt the pockets of Canadians.

I received a note from a Canadian. The carbon tax on his SaskEnergy bill, which is just the heating, is $38 a month plus the GST that is then collected on top of that. That equals $456 a year for just the carbon tax, not including the gas used, the delivery charges or the GST that the government wants to charge on top of the tax. Canadians are paying tax on a tax, and our farmers are definitely not exempt from that.

We know that farmers...but also members of the House of Commons, even some of us who sit around this table, have voted for Bill C-234 to go to the Senate. That's why it is in the Senate at this point in time. We know too that the Liberal Prime Minister has appointed “independent” senators, which we know are not independent. Many of them had Liberal Party memberships before their appointment to the upper chamber. We are hearing rumours that Liberal ministers are individually calling those appointed senators by phone to tell them not to vote for this, to hold this up and to prevent this from going further, because the Prime Minister had decided to carve out special carbon tax exemptions on home heating for those who live in certain parts of the country, mainly Atlantic Canada. They see that, if this does pass, there will be more holes and flaws in the carbon tax ideology, which I would agree with.

We know that Bill C-234 would save farmers billions of dollars. Coming from a rural part of Canada, I know how much our farmers are donating to the food banks, for example. When the government decides to take more out of their pockets, they have less time and less expendable income that they can then sow into their communities to help fellow community members.

I also know—we all know, actually—that removing the carbon tax will lower food prices for Canadians, as I said.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I think we're only about 10 minutes away from our normal committee meeting end time. I'm wondering if we could ask these witnesses to come back at another time so that we can have a fulsome round of questions and answers with them. They've invested a lot of time. They have a lot to share with us, and all of this time is getting exhausted. I'd like us to have these witnesses back, and maybe just discharge them now and set them free.