Human Resources Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, the clerk has advised me that the witnesses' sound has been tested, as has that of Mr. Van Bynen, who is appearing remotely, so we're ready to begin.

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting 97 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on June 13, the committee is continuing its study on intergenerational volunteerism.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members and witnesses are appearing in the room and virtually.

I remind all members that you can choose the official language of your choice by using interpretation in the room. Those appearing virtually, simply look for the globe icon at the bottom of your Surface and click on the language of your choice. If there's an interruption in translation, please get my attention and we'll suspend while it's being corrected. I remind members, for the benefit of the translators, to please keep your phones as well as your headpiece away from the mic, at a distance from the mic. It does create popping, which can cause harm to the translators. As well, if you could just speak as slowly as possible most of the time, it does help the translation.

Direct all questions through me, the chair. Wait until I recognize you. To get my attention, please raise your hand if you're in the room or use the “raise hand” icon on your Surface to get my attention.

Now I would like to present the witnesses for this morning's meeting, with a particular welcome to Ms. MacKenzie. Ms. MacKenzie was scheduled before Christmas, and there were some issues with scheduling, so I do appreciate her accommodating our schedule.

As I indicated, Sharon MacKenzie is the executive director of i2i Intergenerational Society of Canada. We have Kascha Cassaday from Cyber-Seniors: Connecting Generations, executive director. From One City Peterborough, we have Christian Harvey, executive director. All are appearing by video conference.

We will begin with Ms. MacKenzie, but first Ms. Gray has a point of order.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

Just before we begin, there's a little business that I feel we need to attend to. During our last meeting this week, the chair adjourned the meeting without following committee rules, and I would like to bring to attention, from the committee rules—this is chapter 20 on pages 785 to 787—and I'll just read it:

The committee Chair cannot adjourn the meeting without the consent of a majority of the members, unless the Chair decides that a case of disorder or misconduct is so serious as to prevent the committee from continuing its work.

I will say that at the last committee the instance was not happening—we were simply discussing a motion on housing—and so I just want to express my dissatisfaction on that, especially considering the important motion that we were discussing together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Ms. Falk, go ahead.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

On that same point of order, I as well just want to express my disappointment. MP Wayne Long's motion to adjourn was moved before 5:30 p.m., and the motion wasn't put to question either.

Chair, you did adjourn the meeting without hearing the point of order from MP Gray, which would have signalled that there was division: It wasn't a unified decision to adjourn. There was division on that issue, and that wasn't addressed.

I understand that Liberal members may have felt very uncomfortable with the meeting that we had, and they did evidently seem to be filibustering to avoid further discomfort or feeling that discomfort, but I just want to say that it's important for all of us on this side of the table to know that the chair of the committee, which is you, will still follow the proper procedure and practice in a meeting, so that we can continue to have confidence in you as chair moving forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Ms. Ferreri.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to add to what my colleagues have said, speaking in support of them, I think, Mr. Chair, you've shown yourself to be a fairly reasonable chair. I think this was just a one-off situation, and I think it would be great to hear from you as to why, to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

I think it's really important that we're all getting opportunities to use our voices. That's what we're elected to do. That's the point of democracy, so I would just echo the same sentiments and, obviously...that we respect the procedure and practice in following the rules.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Aitchison, did you have your hand up?

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I did, Mr. Chair.

I could reiterate everything that's been said by these amazing ladies. I do reiterate that, but I also want to say to the witnesses who are here that I'm sorry we've had to do a little business at the beginning of this meeting. We are obviously frustrated by what happened at the last meeting.

It's important to make sure we are talking about one of the most pressing issues in the country right now, and that's the housing crisis, so I want to thank the witnesses. I'm sorry we've delayed things a little bit just to get started, but it's important for us to get that on the record and make sure Canadians get the service they deserve out of this committee in addressing one of the issues that is most pressing in the country, which clearly is the housing crisis, so thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Mr. Van Bynen, you have your hand up.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to clarify something. Was there only a minute left or less than a minute left prior to our adjournment time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

My clock was telling me we had exceeded 5:30; we were just beyond 5:30.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

However, I will take the points raised.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

If your clock is at 5:30, on ParlVu that's not synced, so that might be something that needs to be synced going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes. ParlVu does not dictate. It is the clock here. The clock in the room is not accurate either.

Thanks for your comments. I will take the comments under advisement, so thanks for those.

We will begin with a five-minute opening statement from Ms. MacKenzie.

Ms. MacKenzie, you have the floor.

[Sharon MacKenzie, Executive Director, i2i Intergenerational Society of Canada]

Good morning, and an early one it is indeed, out here in B.C.

First of all, I really thank the committee for choosing this particular topic—it's very timely. I also thank all of you for the invitation to present.

I've worked for over two decades in the field of intergenerational work across Canada from coast to coast to coast, and it was started by my interest in intergenerational activity. I started the Meadows School project in 2000—until 2010—in B.C., where I moved my elementary school class into a makeshift classroom in a senior care home for two and a half months, much to the eyebrow-raising of all the people in the community.

I went there thinking that I would break down stereotypes, but indeed what I found—after the two and a half months, and then subsequent to that on a weekly basis, when we connected with the seniors for an afternoon or a morning for the rest of the school year—was that the power of intergenerational connecting was unbelievable. As a result of that, I became a principal resource writer in the field for the Public Health Agency of Canada, several governments across Canada, local not-for-profits and so on.

Our work was actually recognized by the World Health Organization, because what it really brought to light was how powerful bringing two generations together is when it's intentional and there are fun and respectful activities.

I'm finding “intergenerational volunteerism” an interesting combination of terms. What I'd like to talk about this morning is the fact that “intergenerational”, in itself, when you have seniors coming together with younger people and having relationships, is incredibly powerful. I know we can help each other and do various things in the volunteer network, but what is really important to me is the fact that by having seniors and young people come together, we actually create a desire to be a volunteer. Instead of saying, “It's required that you volunteer at high school a certain number of hours,” you have that opportunity to say, “I want to be a volunteer,” and that really is a sustainable situation, then, for volunteers across the country as the years go forward.

What we found in the Meadows School project and, honestly, in all research that comes out of the intergenerational field, is that it improves health right across the board—mental, social, emotional and physical health. Any of you in the room who have a relationship with an older person or with a much younger person will know that the connection is very powerful and really fulfills so many of our needs as human beings. As a result of that—and with this being about government, taxpayers and so on—it's wonderful, because that saves money. When you have people who can actually connect with one another, break down isolation and loneliness, and talk over what seems to be huge trauma—which may be something that can come from just having somebody to connect to—all those kinds of things put less pressure, not only on the health care system but also on social justice and policing systems.

I have these funny little glasses that I usually put on when I'm presenting, and I ask you this morning to take an intergenerational view of what we're trying to do in Canada, in terms of connecting people and making more resilient communities.

On a very regular basis we're contacted by an absolutely amazing array of people across Canada, wanting to know how they can fit intergenerational activity into their field. That's everything from the Alzheimer Society to hospice, to the Arthritis Society, and to housing projects, schools or care homes. It's amazing where the requests have come from and the work that we've done over the years with our society, assisting people.

It's very interesting too that a lot of the things that come out of that, which are webinars and resources that the people in a particular organization create, get tucked away under the umbrella of that organization, and other people don't really have access to them. They're wonderful ideas that we could share and either copy or use some kind of a mutation of to make them work for our own communities.

What I have to say to the committee, which I would really like the Government of Canada to hear, is that we're at a point now, with intergenerational relationships and the interest in them across Canada, when we really need to have core funding from the federal government to create an intergenerational hub. That hub would be like an umbrella for all the different factors.

I mean, we all age. Everybody's aging. It doesn't matter what your background is or where you're coming from; all of us are aging, and it's one thing that can tie so many splinter groups and separate groups together in a general focus.

We all go through ages and stages where we're all lonely, and we all find that there are times when things are not going well in our lives. When you can connect with somebody from another generation and really feel that you have a friend, somebody who listens to you and sees you, I think that's very productive.

What would that hub look like? I'm hoping you'll ask some questions later on so that I can—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Could you bring your comments to a conclusion shortly, please?

[Sharon MacKenzie]

Yes, I certainly can. I wasn't sure what time we started. I was all set for 5:15, so I'm sorry. I didn't look at my clock.

That is my pitch. It's to have a real focus on intergenerational work, and we have a wonderful model that we've been using in New Brunswick for the last four years that we could spin off to do something like that.

Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. MacKenzie. You have the opportunity during the questions part to elaborate on your comments.

Ms. Cassaday, for five minutes, please.

[Kascha Cassaday, Executive Director, Cyber-Seniors: Connecting Generations]

Thank you for having me here. My name is Kascha Cassaday. I am the executive director and one of the co-founders of Cyber-Seniors.

Cyber-Seniors is a non-profit that was founded in 2015. Our mission is to bridge the digital divide and connect generations using technology. We envision a world with digital equity, where everyone has access to technology and the skills to use it.

Cyber-Seniors provides tech training for older adults using an intergenerational volunteer model. Teens and young adults are trained as digital mentors through lessons and learning activities, and older adults are provided with tech training and partnered with these volunteers, enabling them to practise what they have learned. The results are enriched intergenerational communities that keep both the older adults and the young people socially connected and engaged.

Cyber-Seniors programs are delivered both in person and virtually. By offering both of these options, Cyber-Seniors is able to ensure that high-risk, vulnerable older adults are kept connected and remain self-sufficient even if they are unable to leave their homes as a result of disease outbreak, lack of transportation or physical limitations.

A 2020 Government of Canada study demonstrated that there is a significant increase in subjective feelings of isolation among older adults in rural communities compared to those residing in urban communities. Social isolation and loneliness are serious public health risks as they concurrently increase the risk of depression, anxiety, mortality, rehospitalization, falls and dementia among older adults.

The Cyber-Seniors intergenerational model for training older adults has been proven to be highly effective. While older adults are experiencing increased levels of digital equity, the young people helping them are learning valuable transferable skills. On a collective level, the program provides a significant boost of feelings of community enrichment and inclusion. Many young people who have participated in a Cyber-Seniors program feel as though their place in the community is validated through their participation.

In the past three years, we have supported tech training for over 25,000 older adults and have accommodated over 280,000 attendees in tech training sessions. We also have trained over 5,000 volunteers to work as tech mentors. We are invested in this issue, and I thank you for inviting us today, because we've seen a number of issues that sometimes make it difficult not only for young people but for older adults to participate in programs such as ours.

One issue is that youth, especially right now, are torn between work opportunities and volunteering. A volunteer experience might be more rewarding and provide more experience, but many would not and can't pass up the opportunity to earn money.

Also, transportation is a major factor for participating in person a lot of the time, not only in our program but in any kind of volunteer space. Youth and older adults don't typically have access to reliable transportation. They might rely on public transportation like ride-sharing, taxis and public transportation, but all of these can be out of their budgets.

On recognition for youth, again, when our young people are volunteering, to some extent they're doing it because they have to for school, or if they want to do it, they're doing it for some sort of accreditation. We have varying degrees of training and have certificates that we offer young people. They take them and put them in their applications for school and for work experiences. However, youth are always looking for federally recognized certificates that employers and schools will recognize during application processes.

Of course, there's also the economic benefit of volunteering, and without consistent funding and support for volunteer management and operational costs, organizations struggle to support their biggest economic benefit, which is their volunteers.

Thank you very much. I do have points as to how those types of issues can be accommodated and solved, hopefully, but I will leave it there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Cassaday.

We go now to Mr. Harvey for five minutes, please.

[Christian Harvey, Executive Director, One City Peterborough]

Thank you so much for having me here. I'm the executive director of One City Peterborough, a multiservice non-profit in Peterborough, Ontario, with a large range of programs supporting those experiencing homelessness and/or criminalization. Our programs are diverse, but what unites them is a vision of a community where everyone belongs and together we flourish. This vision is not possible without a volunteer force of a variety of ages, backgrounds, experiences and skills coming together to imagine a different way of being community.

As non-profits looking to address homelessness and criminalization, we are facing obstacles like we've never seen. The combination of a housing crisis with increasing food prices and a drug poisoning epidemic means that the demand for our services and the intensity of need are increasing at an alarming rate. We operate a 45-bed winter shelter where we're turning away upwards of 15 people every night because we literally have no room. Funding has not increased at the same rate as the need, and it's only through the mobilization of a vast range of volunteers that we're even able to scratch the surface of supporting those most abandoned in our communities.

One such example is our circles of support and accountability program, a program developed in Canada but used around the world. CoSA is a program that helps individuals who have committed acts of sexual violence with safely reintegrating back into the community. This is vitally important, because we know that one of the biggest indicators of reoffence is isolation. CoSA has shown through studies a 70% to 88% reduction in reoffending rates and utilizes volunteers to run the program. These aren't professionals but people who have committed to making their community safer through volunteering and doing hard work. Regrettably, the federal government ended its funding of CoSA, thus many sites have closed.

A community where everyone belongs can happen only when we break down many of the social barriers that exist in our community. We believe that creating a strong volunteer force is one of the important steps to achieving this. A key facet of belonging is a feeling of having a role in something bigger than yourself. With this in mind, we recruit volunteers, not just from the community at large, but also from those we are looking to support. When people are working side by side to create something, it builds a relationship that can challenge many of the strongly held biases we hold.

We have volunteers who are currently living outside and working alongside retirees who, before this relationship, would have referred to those experiencing homelessness as “those people”. A wife of a wealthy retiree once said to me, “Before he was volunteering with you all, when we were downtown he'd cross the street to avoid someone who appeared homeless. Now, he eagerly approaches to see if it's one of his friends.”

This change is one of the utmost importance, as this comes to the heart of why we need volunteers. Non-profits like ours are doing the important work of keeping people alive, but we need to be clear: We are just managing the issue. The type of change we need to see to make any sort of impact on our housing crisis, inflating food costs and a drug poisoning epidemic is going to come from changes at the federal and provincial government levels.

I applaud the steps that have been taken, but we need more. We need to rise up, mentor and mobilize volunteers, because it engages more people in issues on homelessness, on affordability of living.... Once volunteers begin to see what is happening on the ground, it is our experience that often they will begin to see that it is policies that are making our conditions worse and that they need to engage in that. We need older volunteers, because they can remember a time when our society did not abandon so many people on our margins. They can challenge the narrative that it has always been this way, because it hasn't: We have created these conditions. Also, we need young people, because they have the creativity, energy and boldness to challenge these issues head-on. It's through movements of young people that many of the great changes have taken place in our society.

We call for the following: to invest heavily in the non-profit sector. You need our creativity, our nimbleness and our ability to mobilize large swaths of the community to address an issue.

We need to address the major crises we are facing and take bold aggressive action. The increase in homelessness across the country is not because we have seen an increase in people making bad decisions. It's a result of bad policy decisions. If we want more people to volunteer, we need to make it so that fewer people are trying just to survive. We know, though it's not exclusively the case, that people are more likely to volunteer when they don't have to worry about their survival.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Harvey.

Now we'll begin the first round of questioning with Ms. Ferreri for six minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses.

I apologize to those not on Eastern Standard Time. When Ms. MacKenzie said it was 5:15 a.m. there, I thought, “Oh, wow.” I sometimes forget that here in Parliament we work across different time zones.

Christian is from my community of Peterborough. As his testimony tells you, they do some pretty remarkable work there, and we heard some great suggestions. The accountability—I absolutely love this—and the empathy created through your model, I think, are critical to moving forward and working with the most vulnerable.

There are two things I would like to talk to you about, Christian. On your last point about survival, we've heard this repeatedly from many of the witnesses on this intergenerational volunteerism study: that the cost of living is deeply impacting people's ability to volunteer. Can I get you to expand on the impact on your organization?

[Christian Harvey]

Yes. I think what we see is that it is hard for people to focus on creating a better community when they are focused on just meeting their immediate needs. We see that very much. That is something where we are not going to be able to do a whole lot of things unless we begin to increase the quality of life for many of those we're supporting.

The other beautiful thing we are seeing, though, not to counter this at all but to go along with it, is that giving individuals who are experiencing homelessness an opportunity to be a part of creating the solutions that affect them is having really strong impacts. We have had people who were living outside and who began volunteering with us and then moved to actually becoming staff. The confidence they've gained through volunteering and then the expertise they bring through their very lived experience is one of the most beautiful things we've learned.