Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Yes, four days. It's the one dealing with security certificates, and that was today; on Tuesday next we're doing the refugee issues; then on Thursday, Federal Court backlogs--I don't see what that has to do with refugee issues, and I'd like to have that explained--then on Tuesday, suburban impact of refugee movements. That sounds more like settlement to me. Then we have private sponsorship.

What is the focus? This is the question, Chair, I asked at the steering committee: what is the focus of our meetings between now--let's say 9 o'clock this morning--and the end of the November 30 meeting?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The Thursday meeting you referred to, which was November 23, was brought up by, I think, Madame Faille; and the Tuesday, November 28, meeting was brought up by Mr. Siksay; and the Thursday one was private sponsorship, brought up by Mr. Siksay as well. So all three of these were talked about at the subcommittee.

Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

All of these fit into our study of refugee issues, which is our task for the fall. It was our first priority determined by the committee at our meetings in the spring, our prioritization exercise.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That was my understanding.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

As for the issues we're dealing with, we're having officials from the department come to give us background on refugee issues, which I think is crucial and which is something we've discussed doing before. The issue of backlogs of Federal Court cases: the refugee case backlog at Federal Court is an important issue and I'm glad this made it to the list. That's why the Department of Justice officials have been invited.

We've all heard of the changes in where new immigrants and refugees settle in Canada in our communities, and I raised the issue of the changes the suburban communities haven't had a lot of experience with in the past, and are now facing. The city of Burnaby is one where a large percentage of new immigrants and refugees from British Columbia are now settling, so there are a number of stresses on the community as a result of that. We thought it would be helpful to the committee to hear the experience of a particular community. I'm glad to say it's my own community, although most of the pressure is not in my riding; it's in the other Burnaby riding.

Private sponsorship was one of the specific refugee issues the committee identified back in the spring, so that's why it's on the list, to hear from folks on that particular issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That was my understanding as well. And most of us here were at the committee meeting on Tuesday when we talked about this, so I took it for granted that everyone at the subcommittee was in agreement with it.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

First of all, on private sponsorship, I see various difficulties with the calendar. If we're going to discuss the suburban impact of refugee movements, which is linked more to how refugees settle and the problems of settlement when they do--which is an important question but it's not directly related to refugee flow--I would submit that we need to have witnesses.... If we're going to have one from Burnaby, I'm fine with that, but we should have witnesses from other parts of the country as well. That's one issue on Tuesday, November 28.

I don't see that private sponsorship is linked to refugee issues. That's one question.

The other question is regarding Thursday, November 30. I'd like to remind the chair that the House is not sitting that day, so I think it would be interesting to look at this. I submit--

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. William Farrell]

What day would that be? Thursday, November 30. Why would it not be sitting?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The convention.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thursday and Friday, Mr. Farrell, and it would be nice if you checked. Please check.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

A point of order, Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Madame Folco will understand that we did say at the planning committee that we would accommodate members of the Liberal Party. I hope she remembers that commitment we all made, and if since then the House has decided not to sit on the 30th, we will fulfill that request.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Absolutely.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

So her criticism, I think, is a little out of line.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I'm sorry, I did not criticize whether I was going to be there or not. In fact, that was not my intention at all, Mr. Siksay. My question was this. I do not see—and I repeat it—how private sponsorship is directly linked to refugee issues. It seems to me that private sponsorship has to be a special subject on its own.

What I query, Mr. Chair, is the fact that I don't see a distinct objective towards which this committee is going in terms of looking at security certificates and Federal Court backlogs. I would like to state my intention to vote against this calendar, because I think we are not going towards one objective, which is the report back to the minister and to the House of Commons on what are the main problems of refugee issues and what recommendations this committee can make to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I want to get some clarification here. It's my understanding, unless I was at a different meeting, that we agreed—and you agreed with it as well, Madame Folco—on Tuesday that this was the calendar we would pursue.

But anyway, let's continue the discussion. We had Bill with a point of order, then we had Andrew, and then we have Madame Faille.

Bill.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

The private sponsorship program is a specific refugee program operated by the Government of Canada. That's why it's on the list, and that's why it's important that we hear from people who are involved with that program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes.

Who is next? Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I was actually going to make a point on the private sponsorship.

We have a problem. Here we have the private sponsorship offering to do a lot more than they're doing, and we're frustrating them by not allowing them to do the sponsorship. It doesn't make any sense, because it seems to me we can accommodate more refugees, and it doesn't cost the government anything because it's private sponsorship. We should be cooperating with them as much as possible, because we don't want to frustrate them and have them get out of the private sponsorship business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Madame Faille, and then Mr. Komarnicki is next.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I would like to add something on the subject which Ms. Folco did not think was necessarily connected with the matter of refugees.

I agree with Bill that all parties must work together. We have added representatives of the Liberal Party, the Conservative Party and the Bloc Québecois to the agenda.

It is quite appropriate to deal with the matter of private sponsorship during these days, considering the delays, which are increasing. On one hand, the Department must give us the reasons for the delays; on the other hand, we must hear the clients.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate that the parliamentary secretary wasn't able to be at the steering committee and planning committee, no doubt. But one of the things I had mentioned initially is that when we're dealing with, say, sponsorship, as we will be on Thursday, November 30, we should deal with a series of witnesses who give a broad perspective on all of the issues, so you can then come to some conclusion. We've heard at least two parties directly or indirectly on sponsorship and to do with refugees, and now we're having another one. There is no place there where all of us can say, here is who you should hear on a comprehensive basis so you can have some kind of conclusion at the end.

The other point is on the security certificates. For instance, I notice that in the agenda you have the Harkat committee, perhaps family members—I think there was some material passed—and Mary Foster, who I think is perhaps an advocate in that regard. I'm not sure how that relates to refugees. Perhaps I'm missing something, but—

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

It really does eventually, if you--

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

You could argue that, but I don't know how it is that we're going to be talking to the Harkat family and the advocates on behalf of them specifically when we're looking at issues relating to refugees. But if we're going to, then perhaps we need to extend that to include everyone who has an impact on those issues, which may include, say, ministers who were there at that time or other people, that kind of thing.

But I think we're going way adrift on the security certificates. Initially I thought we were just going to do a visit to Kingston, and I thought, fair enough, I haven't seen Kingston and perhaps we should see it. But then we said we'd bring in department officials--