Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Susan Kramer]

That's correct.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If I am incarcerated and my family wants to visit me, and Ramadan means that I can have food with my family after the sun sets, how are you accommodating that?

[Susan Kramer]

First of all, I'd like to reiterate that we do have an imam on staff that we hire. The imam provides us with—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I have met the imam, and what you're telling me and what he told me are two different things, so please go back to my question. If I am being incarcerated, how would you facilitate a visitation with my family when they can only visit me after sunset during Ramadan?

[Susan Kramer]

Visiting hours are from 12:30 till 4:30. They have 3.5 hours of visiting family time every single day, except statutory holidays.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So you're not facilitating. If I'm being incarcerated, you're not facilitating my visitation of my family to celebrate Ramadan--Eid al-Fitr--after sunset?

[Susan Kramer]

I'm sorry, and I apologize, but I'm uncertain of that as a religious requirement.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Christmas is celebrated the night before, and usually Christ's birth is at 12 o'clock, so this is really when you get together with your family and celebrate. Ramadan, the celebration of Eid al-Fitr, is celebrated after sunset, so how are you facilitating visitation by the family for them to celebrate Eid al-Fitr together after sunset?

[Susan Kramer]

No special arrangement has been made for a celebration, although we have on numerous occasions made exceptions for special situations--for example, the birth of a grandchild. However, when something is an issue, there's a redress mechanism available, and we'll do our best to accommodate special requests and balance those with the security requirements of the institution.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Can you please come back to the committee in a couple of weeks and let us know what redress mechanisms you're willing to put forward--

[Susan Kramer]

Yes. Part of the president's directives outline what the redress mechanisms are. I believe Mr. Siksay has already requested them, and they'll be provided to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you very much. That completes our questioning this morning. We do have a committee waiting to come in.

Thank you for your presentation. The information you gave us today will serve us well when we visit the detention centre. Hopefully that will be on Monday. Thank you.

We will suspend for a moment to give our witnesses a chance to move on, and then we will get into the third report of the subcommittee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The meeting will now reconvene.

Mr. Devolin, you wanted to raise a point of clarification on the meeting just adjourned.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes. I raised an issue not to create controversy, but I think I may have a fundamental assumption that's incorrect. I'm wondering if possibly the researcher could get some information and report back to the committee.

The point that I made, and I may be incorrect, was that a sovereign country like Canada has the right to refuse entry to other people who choose to enter Canada with a reason or no reason.

For example, if I drive to the American border in a car and I have a passport, it's my understanding that the American border official does not have to let me into the country, and if they say no, I don't have recourse. I'm presuming the same thing happens from the other side in the same way: if I want to visit a country where I require a visa, that country can deny me a visa, and I don't have the right to appeal to some third party to force them to change their decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You would like to have clarification of that.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I would like to get that clarified. As I said, when someone arrives at our border, whether by car or by airplane at an airport, does Canada as a nation--or the staff that represent us at the border--have the right to refuse entry to that person?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Yes, they can, but they have to give a reason.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. Now, we won't get into a discussion on that.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's the point. That's the point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

What?

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

That's the disagreement. You see, Madame Folco says they must give a reason, and it's my understanding that they do not have to give a reason. That's what I want clarified.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Let's leave it to the analyst, and he'll report back to us at the next meeting.

I'm kind of rushing it along a little bit because we only have 15 minutes and we have a committee outside waiting to get in.

We have to deal with the third report of the subcommittee. Do you have a copy of it in front of you, all committee members? That's the meeting we had on Tuesday, and I think you all have a copy of it. This is what we came up with at the subcommittee for the upcoming meetings on November 9, 21, 23, and 28.

Do we need a motion to adopt this?

Madame Folco has a question.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

I asked this question in the steering committee, and I'm not altogether satisfied I really understand what the answer was, and I'll ask the question before the full committee again.

What I see in front of me for the four days is--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That's Thursday, November 9...okay, four days.