Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We will call our meeting to order.

I want to welcome back members of the committee after our break. Now we are getting back to business, once again.

We have two new members on our committee. One is Omar Alghabra. Is Omar here?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Yes, I'm right here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Hi, Omar. Welcome to the committee.

Raymond Gravel is part of our committee from the Bloc party. I don't believe he's here right now.

I want to welcome our witnesses. We have five judges, I believe, who are here this morning. We want to welcome you. We have two hours. It is a little bit late starting, but we have two hours nonetheless. We welcome you here today to our committee.

I think I'll pass it over to you, Mr. Simard, for an opening statement.

[Michel Simard, Senior Citizenship Judge, Office of the Senior Citizenship Judge, Citizenship Commission, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the committee,

ladies and gentlemen, I would first like to thank you for inviting me to appear before you today, along with my newly minted and esteemed colleagues.

I am honoured to accompany the judges appearing today, and I am certain that you will agree that they bring valuable experience and assets to our complement of citizenship judges.

This occasion also provides me with a very timely opportunity to discuss the mandate of the Citizenship Commission and the role of our citizenship judges.

The Citizenship Commission is an administrative tribunal within Citizenship and Immigration Canada. The Commission is comprised of all citizenship judges working across Canada. The mandate of citizenship judges is set out in the Citizenship Act and regulations.

The commission is responsible for the following: deciding whether citizenship applicants meet the requirement of the Citizenship Act and the citizenship regulations for all cases; administering the oath of citizenship and stressing the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship to new citizens; working to maintain the integrity of the citizenship process; and promoting citizenship by working with school boards, service clubs, multicultural groups, and community organizations.

There is no legislative provision in the Citizenship Act for the creation of the so-called Citizenship Commission. Don't try to find it; you will not find it anywhere.

The Citizenship Commission is an administrative body for citizenship judges or for the position of senior citizenship judge. In comparison, the Immigration and Refugee Board, the IRB, is a legislative body as described in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, IRPA. The position of chairperson of the board is also described.

As indicated above, the mandate of the commission and the duties of the senior citizenship judge have been assigned by the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, pursuant to section 26 of the Citizenship Act.

The duties of the senior judge are subject to policy direction and include the following: promoting consistency and providing functional guidance to other citizenship judges on the interpretation and application of the Citizenship Act; facilitating the exchange of information and being a liaison between judges, the CIC, and other government departments on issues of concern to judges and the CIC; managing and responding to complaints regarding citizenship judges, and if necessary, being a liaison with the Privy Council Office and the minister regarding complaint resolution; acting as a spokesperson for the commission and managing the administrative and professional services that the commission provides for citizenship judges; making recommendations and providing advice, upon request, to the minister on issues of concern to the minister or to the citizenship judges; and managing the operation of the senior judge's office and staff.

What role do citizenship judges play? Citizenship judges are appointed by the Governor in Council on the recommendation of the minister to serve either on a full-time or part-time basis, generally for a period of no more than three years.

Because they are appointed by the Governor in Council, judges enjoy the independence needed to carry out their decision-making duties without any external influence.

The Citizenship Act provides four types of citizenship application. There is a grant of citizenship, according to section 5(1); retentions, under section 8; renunciations, under section 9(1); and resumption, under section 11(1). Most of these applications are decided by a judge on the basis of a file review. However, when a judge finds that more information is required to make a decision, the applicant is invited to attend a hearing before that judge.

To carry out their quasi-judicial responsibilities, citizenship judges need to know the principles of administrative law and natural justice, the Citizenship Act and its regulations, relevant case law as well as certain components of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Criminal Code.

Newly appointed citizenship judges follow a comprehensive training program that provides them with the knowledge and skills they require to perform their duties. Remember that any Canadian citizen can be a citizenship judge; it is not a domain that is reserved for lawyers or members of the legal profession. After that program, judges participate in ongoing training activities to further develop their skills.

There are presently 28 judges, including the senior citizenship judge. There 19 full-time judges and nine part-time judges, and a total of nine vacancies. Five are full-time and four are part-time. Currently, there are vacancies in Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, and the Atlantic region.

Our complement of judges has achieved both gender and ethnicity representation. For example, our current 16 male and 12 female judges represent as many as 13 ethnic communities.

The screening process for citizenship judges plays a critically important role in terms of ensuring that the Commission acquires a full complement of judges. This process is constantly evolving. The objective is to ensure an adequate supply of skilled, qualified candidates in regions in need of judges.

At an administrative level, the commission works with the minister to fully implement a screening process. This involves adopting new assessment tools that target the skills and abilities outlined in a new competency profile for the position, which was distributed to the members of this committee. The commission also works with the minister's office and the Privy Council to obtain the Prime Minister's approval of the screening process.

The commission also provides extensive classroom training for new citizenship judges. The effectiveness of the training program is evaluated on an ongoing basis, and adjustments are made as required.

The commission would also like to develop what we call a feedback program designed to help determine the professional development needs of the Citizenship Commission. The program would provide individual judges with specific feedback from applicants about the hearings they conduct and the ceremonies at which they preside. The commission will receive an aggregate summary of the feedback, and this information will then be incorporated into the professional development training for judges. Discussing this feedback with a trusted mentor will allow individual judges to consider new ways of approaching their work. The judge will then be able to seek individual training or skills development opportunities at their own discretion as a result of this process.

The implementation of the commission's feedback program on judges' performances was and remains dependent upon the GCMS's capacity, or the departmental capacity, to provide the needed data and ministerial approval of the appropriate level of funding.

Next I will discuss challenges. The definitive mission of the commission remains to balance efficiency and effectiveness to ensure that the citizenship process runs smoothly and works for the benefit of Canada. Our challenge remains to fulfill our mandate and undertake new initiatives required by the department within the context of very limited resources. The annual budget of the Citizenship Commission is approximately $2.1 million in A-base funding.

Appointments must be made and mandates renewed quickly to ensure that the citizenship acquisition process runs at optimum efficiency across the country.

In spite of the many challenges and two changes in government, citizenship judges have refocused their efforts on improving and applying the provisions of the current Citizenship Act. The citizenship acquisition process has encountered problems and the situation has been made worse by the ever-growing workload.

The Citizenship Commission has always been, and will continue to be, concerned about ensuring that judges have the means to make enlightened, fair and timely decisions that are consistent with the act. This is essential in order for applicants to be treated fairly everywhere in Canada.

Our top priority for 2006-2007 is to acquire a full complement of 37 citizenship judges.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I neglected to mention, as well, that we have two people at the table who weren't here before. I want to welcome a new committee clerk, Samy Agha, and a new analyst, Trupati Patel. Mr. Agha will be taking the place of Mr. Farrell in April when Mr. Farrell retires. We'll be very nice to Mr. Farrell until April, and Samy will be taking over from him.

I want to call on Mr. Springate.

[George Springate, Citizenship Judge, Montreal CIC Office, Citizenship Commission, As an Individual]

Mr. Chairman, allow me to state at the outset that I consider myself to be one of the most fortunate men in this world--I am a Canadian. I say that because my mother and father came to this land--I am the son of immigrants--so I could have a better life.

They taught me two things. First, the most precious thing, prize, or gift they ever gave me was Canadian citizenship, and with citizenship comes responsibility. Canada is a land of opportunities, but not a land of guarantees. In other words, it was up to me to make what I could of what they gave me.

In my teens, I applied to two police forces: the RCMP and the Montreal police force. I was accepted to both. I went to Montreal for one specific reason: I could go to school. In those days there was no such thing as long-distance education, computers, satellites, or what have you, but there were universities.

My police functions at the beginning were the same as anyone's--squad car, beat, morality--but my last seven years helped prepare me for this job. I became the voice of the force. I did recruiting. I protected or defended the force, if you wish, on television and radio. And I met every possible group, be it social, cultural, religious, colour, or what have you.

I also went to school. In my eleven years in the Montreal Police Service I earned three university degrees: a bachelor of arts from Sir George Williams with a major in psychology, and two law degrees from McGill. In other words, sir, I was a police officer full-time and a student full-time. I also played football for McGill in my only leisure hours, and I was captain of the club.

I left the Montreal police force to become a member of the National Assembly. I served as an MNA for 11 years. Four months after being elected, I started playing football for the Montreal Alouettes. We won the Grey Cup that year.

I was still an MNA was I stopped playing for the Alouettes. I went on to be one of the co-creators of a police technology course at John-Abbott College. This three-year course leads to a degree in police technology and to a job as a police officer in the province of Quebec.

I was first elected to office in 1970 and re-elected in 1973 and in 1976. I didn't have an easy time of it in 1976, but I did manage to get re-elected.

When I left the National Assembly, I continued teaching, but I began doing television work. I was a television talk show host for six years with a half-hour show each day on CBC. I also did the nightly sports on CBC television.

At John Abbott College I continued on as I had as a police officer and as I had as a member of the National Assembly, dealing with the various groups in the community.

I organized a most successful symposium every year at John Abbott dealing with violence in schools, which allowed us to bring the best speakers we could find on that topic to the school. We brought in 400 high school students from the greater region of Montreal, be it Laval, Hudson, or wherever. What it allowed us to do was teach respect, appreciation of another's culture, and appreciation of another point of view--audi alteram partem; in other words, before you make your decision, be sure you hear the other side--and it allowed us to grow.

I was named a member of the Order of Canada in 1989, specifically because of my community work. I began, at the request of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, to do citizenship ceremonies as a member of the Order of Canada, especially on July 1, and on other days.

I was named a citizenship judge for the first time in 1999. On November 6 of last year, I was nominated and named for my sixth mandate as a citizenship judge.

All of that, Mr. Chair, is because my mom and dad came to Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Springate, very interesting indeed.

Ms. Yung-Fung.

[Mina Yung-Fung, Citizenship Judge, Mississauga CIC Office, Citizenship Commission, As an Individual]

Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, mesdames et monsieurs. Thank you very much for inviting me to appear before you today. Indeed, it is an honour for me to appear before such a distinguished panel of public representatives.

A study of the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website reveals that a citizenship judge should have skills in the areas of analytical and conceptual thinking, communication, problem solving, information seeking, and decision making. This individual should also have knowledge of and be willing to undergo further training in the Citizenship Act and regulations.

When you look into my academic achievements and past experiences, you will be most assured that I have met all the above expectations. I graduated from Hong Kong Polytechnic in management studies and was admitted as an associate of the Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators in London, England. I worked as a company secretary of a publicly listed company in Hong Kong, a position equivalent to the chief administrative officer.

In 1987 I immigrated to Canada and in 1990 I was granted Canadian citizenship. It was certainly a unique and memorable moment in my life, and I cherish it even today. Since 1997 I've been teaching English as a second language, that is ESL, and citizenship classes. In 2000 I also got my TESL Ontario certificate to teach ESL. Also, I've been a coordinator for the LINC program, that is language instruction for newcomers to Canada, and also co-chair of the Peel LINC partnership. I also worked for over ten years as a newcomer settlement program worker and helped newcomers to settle and integrate into Canada.

As an ESL and citizenship teacher I was able to help newcomers not only to learn English and about Canada, I helped them adapt to changes in life and to Canadian culture. I enjoyed working with my students because the feedback I received from them was very positive. After the course, students would tell me how much they had learned about Canada and that they were now able to appreciate the country they live in and were able to become Canadian citizens.

The most rewarding part of my teaching was that I could share my experience about voting procedures with my students and the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizens and that I could also pass on a message to them of what Canadian citizenship means.

Being a citizenship judge is the greatest honour of my life. It is a continuation of my career path, but from a different perspective. I'm privileged to be able to participate in a process of approving applications by reviewing the files and making sure that the requirements of the Citizenship Act and regulations are met, administering the oath of citizenship, and stressing the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizens while presiding over the citizenship ceremony.

I'm very happy that I can contribute to maintaining the integrity of the citizenship process. To me it is a particular pleasure to be able to promote Canadian citizenship to the entire community, which I have always enjoyed doing when I was a citizenship teacher. Community service is extremely important to me.

I've served on different volunteer boards and committees. To mention a few here: the Credit Valley Hospital's Chinese Community Advisory Committee, the Mississauga Board of Chinese Professionals and Businesses, Carassauga-Mississauga's Festival of Cultures, and the Region of Peel's Cancer Prevention Forum.

These experiences have been very rewarding. I learn a lot and always share my experience with the other board members for the benefit of the community at large. With my excellent time management and decision making skills, I've been able to balance both work and volunteer commitments. I have also demonstrated creativity and flexibility in working with people of diverse cultural and social backgrounds.

My dedication to work and to the community shows that I'm committed to working as part of a team, and that is what I intend to do within the Citizenship Commission as a citizenship judge.

In Mississauga I'm recognized by the community as a dedicated volunteer and a prominent member of the community. Everyone I work with would have no hesitation to recommend me as an outstanding volunteer who can meet any new challenges that come across my path, make a difference in the community, and deliver results.

In short, I can say that I have a good understanding of the principles of natural justice and procedural fairness. I've a good knowledge of the Citizenship Act and the relevant regulations thereof. I'm also willing to learn more and fine-tune my skills on a continuing basis.

I possess extensive experience in interacting with people of diverse backgrounds, different socio-economic and cultural perspectives. As far as people encountering language barriers, I'm experienced in utilizing the services of cultural interpreters for the delivery of equitable services. I assure you, Mr. Chairman, that I will continue to serve the public by maintaining a high standard of cultural sensitivity and by recognizing, understanding, accepting, and respecting diversity in all its respects.

Finally, I would like to assure you that I will work in a professional, ethical, and timely manner. I will ensure that everyone who appears before me is given a fair hearing and will be judged with compassion.

I thank you for your time and attention. Merci beaucoup.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you very much.

I'll now call upon Ms. Brum Bozzi.

[Renata Brum Bozzi, Citizenship Judge, Mississauga CIC Office, Citizenship Commission, As an Individual]

Thank you.

Good day, Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the committee, mesdames et messieurs.

Thank you for inviting me to appear before you today. It is an honour to speak to you and to discuss my qualifications for the position of citizenship judge.

As Judge Simard has informed you in his backgrounder, a citizenship judge should possess superior communication, analytical, interpersonal, and decision-making skills. He should have cultural sensitivity and good judgment. In addition, a judge should have knowledge of the principles of fairness and natural justice and, of course, of the Citizenship Act and regulations.

Keeping these skills in mind, I will endeavour to explain how my education, professional experience, and life experiences have enabled me to meet the qualifications of a citizenship judge.

I am a daughter of immigrants, and I am not Canadian-born. I came to this country as a child from Azores, Portugal. My parents had virtually no education. They had little money, and they had no knowledge of English. Of all the experiences in my life, this one has forged my character in the most marked way. Because I was the eldest child, it fell upon me to help my parents cope with the adjustments necessary to live in a new country and also to help them become citizens when they felt it was time to commit to their new home.

It is thus an honour for me to preside over a citizenship ceremony, albeit now sitting on the other side of the bench. This experience of being an immigrant has allowed me to identify with applicants who are on the path to citizenship and to understand the struggles of adapting to a new culture and language.

In addition to the immigrant experience, my education in the area of criminology has been invaluable to the performance of my duties as a citizenship judge. This academic background has provided me with a general knowledge of law and procedure, including the principles of fairness and natural justice and the exercise of applying the law, statutes, and jurisprudence to the facts of a case. More recently, my work for David Brown, now Mr. Justice David Brown, judge of the Superior Court of Ontario, provided a good refresher on these principles. This academic and professional experience serves to help me prepare well-reasoned and well-written decisions.

My professional experience includes some time at the Catholic Civil Rights League, where I worked to revitalize the organization. There I learned how to manage time effectively and work efficiently with others on projects all over the country. Aside from refining essential professional skills, my work with the league helped me to gain a profound appreciation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and reinforced to me the value of participating in the public forum and of participating in the political process, which is a duty of every Canadian citizen--and I certainly reinforce that at every citizenship ceremony that I perform.

My professional days came to a screeching halt after I married and made quick work of becoming a mother of five. My apparent fertility went beyond biology, though. Working with community schools, I became a temporary adoptive mother to students from all over the world who came from different economic, linguistic, and faith backgrounds. From my family the students learned the English language and the value of this great country, and from them my family, and especially my children, gained a wonderful opportunity to appreciate the richness of different cultural backgrounds. In our own home, my children and I learned how to cope with linguistic barriers and how to be culturally sensitive. These abilities are an essential qualification of a citizenship judge.

Finally, I bring some linguistic abilities to the performance of my duties. These include Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and French. And thanks to Judge Simard, I will soon gain personalized training in order to refresh and improve my ability to speak French. Speaking both official languages proficiently is important to me because it is another way that I can contribute to the commission; it is useful in the performance of my duties; and it is a way to ensure that French-speaking applicants can be served in that language.

These are the skills and experiences that have formed me. I would like to assure you that I will execute my duties with compassion and fairness.

I want to close by telling you how much I love being a citizenship judge. Every day my door opens and someone extraordinary walks in. Every day I'm reassured that decency and a desire for peace bind humankind more strongly than those things which divide us all, and it is this desire for peace that brings many people to Canada. Every day I'm grateful to be a citizen of this great nation--every day. And I am grateful to be able to play a small role in the very important task of nation-building.

Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Gill.

[Raminder Gill, Citizenship Judge, Toronto (St-Clair) CIC Office, Citizenship Commission, As an Individual]

Mr. Chairman, esteemed members of this committee, it gives me great pleasure this morning to be here with you, and I want to thank you for inviting me to be able to share some views with you in terms of the citizenship process, as well as, perhaps, my qualifications to try to fulfill this great role.

I am, Mr. Chairman, very blessed that about 40 years ago my parents made a decision--I had no part in it, so I will not take the credit--to gather some courage. From a small village in Punjab, India, they wanted to come to Canada. At that time, Mr. Chair and ladies and gentlemen, first of all, we had no money. Secondly, the India reserve bank was going through some problems, and they did not have enough foreign exchange for us to take any money with us, so we basically came with $9 in our pockets.

Since then, Mr. Chair, the family has worked very hard. Certainly the values that my dad's forefathers instilled in him he tried to instill in us to get the best education possible. In fact, if you want to go back--I don't think any of us can personally go back that far--there was a ship in the history of Canadian immigration called Komagata Maru. On that famous ship, or infamous ship, depending on which side of the spectrum you look at, my grandfather, when he was 18 years old, he came to this great land. Unfortunately, that ship was not allowed to dock in British Columbia. In fact, that ship was bombarded by cannons.

He was a very enterprising man of 18 years. Along with three of his friends, they jumped ship in Mexico--this is an untold story. They jumped ship, came back to Mexico, the U.S.A., back to Canada, where they actually worked on the east-west rail connection, along with Chinese friends, along with the Canadians. He was paid 10¢ an hour, whereas so-called Canadians were paid 25¢ an hour.

But I do recollect, just like yesterday--I must have been eight or nine years old--sitting around his cot in the village in Punjab, listening to these great stories of a wonderful land where the land is great and people are respected. One thing he told us, he said, “Rami, get out. Get out, go out, enjoy the world, travel, but before you do, try to learn the language.” So I was very happy that in the winter of 1968 my parents decided to come to Canada, and just like any typical immigrant, first generation--we all go through different stories. I'm sure each one of the members here, either directly or indirectly, either themselves or through their families, has great stories of settlement in Canada.

In fact, the other day, I think it was Friday, when I was holding a court of citizenship, the clerk said to the new candidates, the people receiving citizenship, “Here is a true example in Judge Gill of an immigrant coming in, first generation, settling in, and working hard to perhaps dream, dream big, and enjoy some of the fruits of labour.”

In fact, I was very, very blessed, Mr. Chair and ladies and gentlemen, that I was given an opportunity by the constituents of Bramalea—Gore—Malton—Springdale to represent them as a member of provincial parliament. During my tenure I was very happy to bring forward the largest community hospital in Canada to that riding. So at least there is a legacy.

I'm very, very pleased that I've been given this responsibility and opportunity to serve Canada in this new capacity, and it's my privilege to do my best.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Before we begin questioning, members, I think it's necessary to inform all the members of our committee what the parameters are for questioning witnesses. I want to quote Marleau-Montpetit:

The scope of a committee's examination of Order-in-Council appointees or nominees is strictly limited to the qualifications and competence to perform the duties of the post. Questioning by members of the committee may be interrupted by the Chair, if it attempts to deal with matters considered irrelevant to the committee's inquiry. Among the areas usually considered to be outside the scope of the committee's study are political affiliation of the appointees....

So, bearing that in mind, I will go to our seven-minute round, and I will go to Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I certainly do not want this to be on part of my time.

With reference to that particular passage that you read, are we not allowed to ask about the résumés of the individuals and what posts they have had in the past, or what political affiliations they have had?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Or if they ran for a particular political party?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No. Marleau and Montpetit--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

We cannot ask--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No. Political affiliation is outside the scope of the committee's study.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

A résumé was produced. Are we not allowed to question the résumé?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes, you can question the résumé, but you are restricted to the examination of the qualifications, not political affiliation or party contributions or anything of that sort.

That's also, I'd like to remind members, in Standing Order 111, if members want to refer to Standing Order 111 as well. I've quoted Marleau and Montpetit also.

Go ahead, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank you. You certainly have set out the parameters.

I would like to ask a question of the members of the panel. When I look at your résumés, certainly the résumés are great. Your remarks were fantastic and I do appreciate the fact that some of you, or all of you, are qualified. Some of you are even overqualified. However, I'm just wondering if I can go down the list of the citizenship judges and ask you if there was anything left out on your résumés, or if there is anything you might want to add. People have sat in political office or some people have sought political office, and I'm just wondering if seeking political office was left out of the résumé. I'll ask Mr. Raminder Gill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Again, I would interpret that as--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

That's part of the résumé, isn't it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, it's part of the résumé, but I think it's asking about political affiliation of individual members. I don't believe that would be in order according to Standing Order 111, which strictly limits it to the examination and qualifications of the individual. It is not to get into the political affiliation of the individual or what past political affiliation they might have had, so I'm afraid I have to rule that question out of order.