Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Administering the oath and dealing with the rights and responsibilities happens in a primarily ceremonial way in a public fashion. I've been at some of those ceremonies, and they can be quite moving, as we noticed through some of the testimony here. I consider one of the qualifications to be that judges be able to relate to newcomers who are taking their oath of citizenship. I mean that they be not only able to relate to them, but able to speak to them at their level and be personable in that way. Would you agree with me?

[Michel Simard]

Certainly.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Another aspect of being a citizenship judge has to do with having the personality to work with schools, as you mentioned, school boards, service clubs, multicultural groups, and community organizations, to have that contact with people on the ground to get them educated in a sense and to get them to relate what's happening. Would it be fair to say that if one is involved in a political office, whether it be municipal, provincial, or federal, it's a positive thing, in the sense that you deal with people and their issues and problems?

Do you want to make a comment? I've got more to say, but I'll let you break in because I think you're anxious to say something.

[Michel Simard]

The Citizenship Commission wants to attract people from all walks of life. I mean all walks of life in the true sense. The fact of having been involved in politics, of whatever colour, affiliation, or belief, is a demonstration that you took some deep interest in the affairs of your country and that you were part of the debate. That would surely not disqualify anyone from the position.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Did you have another comment?

[Michel Simard]

What is important is that we need good communicators who are able to adapt their message to various audiences. We also need people who are capable of renewing themselves, even if they've presided over a thousand citizenship ceremonies. In terms of experience, my colleague here is about a thousand times more experienced that I am as far as ceremonies are concerned. I often ask him, “George, how do you stay enthusiastic?”

The key, as it is for any priest who is officiating over his 5,000th marriage ceremony, is that even if you have a cold and you feel bad, you have to put it in your head before you preside that for the people who are going to stand in front of you it's going to hopefully be their only day of marriage. It is exactly the same phenomenon with citizenship ceremonies. You have to have the capacity to reinvent yourself, re-energize yourself, and always have in the back of your mind that ultimate respect for those people who stand in front of you.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I can only conclude by saying that not only is that important, but community work like being a member of the Order of Canada, belonging to the Lions Club, being a member of a particular group--as I see in Mr. Gill's South Asian heritage month--being president of a community of newcomers, and all those kinds of things bear on the ability to be what we consider a good citizenship judge.

[Michel Simard]

Definitely. It's one of the basic requirements that we have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Telegdi, please.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

These are five-minute rounds, by the way.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I want to welcome you all, and I am much impressed with what I heard. All four of you were born elsewhere and we have five members of this committee who were born elsewhere, so it's good to see you here.

Certainly citizenship has been one of my areas of great interest over the years. I'm happy to say that we still have citizenship court judges instead of having commissioners, as was proposed by the department. I think that's a battle that we have won.

Five of the members of this committee were part of producing the unanimous committee report on citizenship the last time around, in the last Parliament. We are looking to get re-engaged in that debate so that we can actually come up with a new Citizenship Act, particularly given the fact that parts of the Citizenship Act are unconstitutional. This is the sixtieth anniversary of Canadian citizenship, so it would be proper to actually have a new Citizenship Act that captures the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is celebrating its 25th anniversary this year. So all those things come together.

When we debated the whole issue of citizenship—and I remember having the debate with some Conservative members—and we debated the issue about having it done by government and making it a political appointment, I remember telling my colleagues on the other side, when they were in opposition, that it's a good thing to be able to appoint people who have been politically active and who have contributed to the community.

I really hope that in your endeavours you encourage Canadians to be active, be it in voluntary organizations, in the political party of their choice, or in municipal politics, because that is a good thing. I also hope you educate them on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and what it means, and what it means to live in a democracy like Canada.

Have you been following the debates in Parliament and through parliamentary committees, on the Citizenship Act? If you have not, I would recommend that you do so.

[Michel Simard]

We certainly did, sir.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Will I leave it there?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

That's it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Telegdi.

Who do we have next? Mr. Devolin.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all of you for being here today. It was interesting to listen to your introductory remarks and to note some of the similarities, actually, between your job and the job that we do. I mean that in the sense that part of it is substantive and dealing with process and administration, but part of it is what I don't want to call ceremonial in the sense that it doesn't matter, but ceremonial in the sense that, as you said, for the people who come before you, it is a very significant day for them.

I can tell you, as a new MP a couple of years ago, I felt very awkward going to places and standing up, saying, “On behalf of the Government of Canada...”, or “On behalf of Canada...”. I almost felt like a bit of a phony at first and was quite uncomfortable. But I quickly got to the point where I realized it was important to the people in the room, whether it was a 50th wedding anniversary or whether it was a retirement party. I have now become not only quite comfortable doing it, but appreciate the value that those ceremonies have for the people who are involved. So when you talk about reinventing yourself time and time again, I know of what you speak.

There are a couple of issues I want to briefly touch on. The issue of partisan affiliation or having been politically involved in the past has come up today. My sense is that partisan affiliation should neither determine nor preclude political appointment. Someone should not be appointed to something simply by virtue of their political affiliation or their activities in the past.

Having said that, I would go so far as to say it would be absurd to preclude everyone who has been politically active from political appointment. That's a fine line that we need to walk.

The issue really is qualification. I appreciate that the process of appointment of judges has changed. We have a process right now that we would probably all agree is not the perfect process, and we need to move toward that.

Having said that, Mr. Simard, you've been very involved. In your opinion, are the four people sitting at the table with you today qualified to do this job?

[Michel Simard]

Yes, they are. They have been trained, and they passed the training successfully. I'll tell you one thing. As the senior citizenship judge, one of my key responsibilities is to reinforce the fellowship of our group. Again, we are very representative of this country not only in gender and ethnicity, but also in political affiliation and opinions.

I can volunteer it with your permission, Mr. Chairman, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No, I don't want you to go there.

[Michel Simard]

Okay, very good.

Having said that, we have trained, qualified people, and we now have a commission that is basically looking forward in the same direction as far as the tasks we have to do are concerned.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I'm glad to hear that.

In my riding, I deal with a lot of young people and I encourage them to get involved in public life, which I define very broadly. I tell them that whether they're a cub scout leader, whether they're a hockey coach, or whether they run municipally or federally, I encourage them. I tell them that I don't care what party they get involved in if they want to get involved provincially or federally, but to get involved in public life, because it is something important.

One last question. You mentioned the number of vacancies that you have. There are 28 people currently on your bench, and there are nine vacancies. How critical is it that those be filled so that your group as a whole can manage the workload that you have before you?

[Michel Simard]

Mr. Chair, it is critical to basically have our full complement in order to basically avoid backlog, and also in order to provide the same level of services in every single region of this country. Let me just give you an example.

We have been without a judge in the Atlantic region for about two to two and a half years now. Do we provide service to the Atlantic region? Yes. We basically ask a judge currently in Windsor or in Edmonton or in Vancouver, where we have more than one, to travel. If there is a language requirement for a French client, we send a French-speaking person there, or a bilingual person, to basically offer the services.

We will allow more flexibility to Atlantic Canada to provide them with their judge locally. We will also allow them to basically do the bulk of the work as far as promotion is concerned. But right now we're just limiting them to what we call the raw level of services.

The important thing is not only filling those positions, but making sure they are reappointed on time. I can't talk for my agency colleague, but one of the key things that is important too is the possibility of making our political masters sensitive to the fact that when you have a vacancy in the making, or when you have the end of a term in the making, a government should basically get its act together in order to inform the person in that position if they are reappointed. If they are not, then the government has to make a timely replacement of that person for the machine to keep going. I think it is crucial.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Devolin.

Madame Faille.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Earlier, I asked a series of questions, but I must take this opportunity to remark on Mr. Springate's presence here today. As a resident of Vaudreuil-Soulanges, I'm a neighbour of his and I'm well aware of his involvement. We discussed it prior to the meeting. I'm a football fan and one of my cousins, Gabriel Grégoire, was acquainted with Mr. Springate. We brought home the Grey Cup in 1977, with Larry Smith and the infamous snow storms. I'm also getting to know Mr. Springate, the politician. I wasn't very old in 1970, 1973 and 1976. I might not even have been around for the first two elections.

Although I was a member of a different political party in 1976 and 1981, I became acquainted with a wonderful woman whom you also knew, Ms. Denise Cypihot, who is now deceased, She was responsible for the establishment of the Gérald-Godin Cegep. Mr. Springate's contribution to John-Abbott College is also noteworthy. He was responsible for setting up the police technology course. We also have other connections. I worked as a consultant on the 911 system for the City of Montreal. I have ties with the City of Montreal and with the police force. I was also acquainted with Clifford Lincoln and Russell Williams, and served as Pierre H. Cadieux's political assistant. It's interesting to note that in addition to making a contribution as an athlete, you have also made a civic contribution, something that people might be less aware of. When you received the Order of Canada in 1989, I was just starting to work on Parliament Hill. What a happy coincidence to see you here.

I have taken part in ceremonies on two occasions in Montreal. Of course, no one recognized me as an MP and I realized that few MPs attend these ceremonies. Both times, the event had been postponed, but nevertheless people did attend. I was seated and waiting along with the others. Perhaps some thought that I was about to receive my Canadian citizenship. Perhaps this was an isolated incident, but it was a little unfortunate. After all, it happened twice. People who were arriving seemed somewhat lost. I think that citizenship ceremonies should be more than just an administrative gesture. It left somewhat of a bitter taste in my mouth.

Earlier, you mentioned the shortage of judges and your heavy workload. I wonder if this might be the reason for incidents like this. Are you in contact at all with the persons to whom you are granting citizenships, that is with your clients? Do you inquire as to what happens to them after they have received their citizenship or ask them about their impressions of the ceremony? You go all out for the July 1 ceremony, but in my opinion, the other ceremonies come up a little short. I just wanted to mention it because I find it unfortunate.

Ceremonies are also held in Quebec. Do you talk at all about the history of the Quebec nation when you preside over ceremonies in Quebec? The subject has been in the news lately. Do you refer to the Quebec nation in your speeches?