Evidence of meeting #31 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ed Wiebe  Coordinator, National Refugee Program, Mennonite Central Committee Canada
Sarah Angus  Member, Justice, Peace and Creation Advisory Committee, United Church of Canada
Heather Macdonald  Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada
Martin Mark Ill  Coordinator, Refugee Sponsorship, Catholic Crosscultural Services, Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Toronto, Elected Sponsorship Agreement Holders
Carolyn Vanderlip  Coordinator, Refugee Sponsorship, Anglican Diocese of Niagara, Elected Sponsorship Agreement Holders
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. William Farrell

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

I would like to call our meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone.

On behalf of our committee, I want to welcome our witnesses today. They are here to speak about refugee issues and private sponsorship. I want to welcome witnesses from the Mennonite Central Committee Canada, the United Church of Canada, and the Elected Sponsorship Agreement Holders.

Welcome to all of you. We have about an hour and forty minutes to deal with your statements or to deal with your issues. We'll begin with opening statements. After you finish your statements, of course, committee members may want to make comments or engage you in questioning and what have you.

I will turn it over to our witnesses for opening statements. Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Ed Wiebe Coordinator, National Refugee Program, Mennonite Central Committee Canada

I'm Ed Wiebe, and I'm with the Mennonite Central Committee in Winnipeg.

Mennonite Central Committee Canada has been a sponsorship agreement holder—or SAH, as we call them—continuously since the inception of the program in 1979. We operate the program out of five provincial offices that connect with more than 600 rural and urban congregations throughout Canada. We estimate that about half of those have been engaged with this program at one time or another.

There continues to be good support for and good interest in the program. However, given the many other opportunities that groups and individuals have to participate voluntarily in other things, and given the challenges in the program currently, we cannot assume that private sponsorship will retain its prominence if it does not very soon start to also show its relevance and responsiveness again.

Canada's private sponsorship program started with a designated class group out of Southeast Asia in the late 1970s. It was the so-called boat people crisis at the time. I don't think anyone at that time imagined how long and how successful this program would become, resettling literally tens of thousands of additional privately sponsored refugees to Canada.

Those were the golden years, but that first group was also an exception. They were accepted en masse. Although exceptions continue today, the program deals mostly with refugee populations where the merits of each individual's case must be assessed.

For the local sponsorship groups that raise the money and settle the refugees in their communities, this shift in complexity is not really important. It's not something they spend a lot of time on. They just want to make a difference in someone's life in a measurable, effective, and hands-on way, but due to current frustrations with years of waiting and numerous case rejections, they are becoming frustrated, rapidly losing faith that this is still a responsive and effective mechanism. We are seeing much smaller arrival numbers, while the upfront costs that we incur and the effort that is put in to produce those results have escalated exponentially.

One of our concerns as a sponsorship agreement holder is our own lack of direct contact with refugees at the source, with the environment they live in, and with the groups directly working with them out there. While we hear compelling third-party voices advocating on behalf of situations and individuals here, we are concerned about the cries abroad that are muted by distance and other barriers.

Last spring, I and six of my colleagues from Canada and two based in Africa spent several weeks exploring refugee protection issues in Kenya and South Africa, including many NGO visits, visits with UNHCR hubs and branch offices, and also visits with the respective Canadian high commissions in each of those countries. Something that stands out was a comment we heard several times from NGOs involved in resettlement. They noted how difficult it must be for Canadian SAHs to assess refugee cases exclusively from within Canada when they find it incredibly difficult to do that right at the source.

That echoed what our MCC staff heard or did in Thailand. They used to say to us during the Southeast Asia years that it was difficult for them as well. They were working in identification and assessment of cases and other humanitarian assistance at the time. They helped us assess cases, and they also gave us valuable insights and reports into specific issues, trends, and biases they were seeing on the ground. Such a more integrated assessment approach greatly aided our ability at that time to sponsor those most vulnerable, but, as noted, that was also a designated class movement.

When we then started to work with Central American refugees who were assessed against the full refugee definition, for the first time on a large scale we were also faced with having to assess based on the credibility of the individual claim as well. It was at that time that sponsorship agreement holders entered into a new era.

As both a relief and development NGO and an SAH, MCC feels it is important for us to focus more energy on field-based assessment. We are confident that we are now doing a vigilant and effective job on our in-Canada role, and that is something we will be vigilant about and continuing.

Staff training and competence have been greatly increased, and we acknowledge the support and training provided by the refugee sponsorship training program, which CIC funds. It aids our own efforts in being competent, yet our acceptance rate is still only around 50%. CIC has cited this as a major reason for the current program problems. We should remember, though, that such statistics are based on cases submitted between 30 and 40 months ago. I can't imagine a school pointing to a poor test result of a student in grade five who is currently acing grade eight.

We would also like to draw your attention to the fact that Canada accepts only about 80% of cases referred by the UNHCR, which has extensive field operations to do refugee status determination. So even if we use our 40-month-old rejection rate, UNHCR achieves only a 30% better rate—and I would remind you of the millions of dollars they spend in doing those determinations.

Currently, MCC is exploring what it would take for us to move back into more overseas case identification and referral. We are just starting an informal pilot approach in one refugee-producing region, but entering into this on a larger scale would require significantly increased internal commitment and resources. Identification and referral overseas would, though, allow us to better address the full needs of the refugee populations in regions where we may have some capacity to make a difference. However, any of our efforts are going to fail if visa offices continue to be inadequately resourced, if long processing times are not addressed, and if the prevailing negative attitude toward private sponsorship continues in Canada's missions abroad and within CIC itself.

How can we increase our work and resources overseas successfully in protecting more refugees when processing times are measured in years? Does our plan make any sense when new cases will be placed into the back end of the current long backlog? We would be wasting any newly developed resources and capacity overseas in ways that our board and supporting sponsoring groups would not accept. We need a commitment from this committee to make the backlog issue and the clearance of backlogs a priority.

We would also encourage government to look at ways in which it might support NGOs in broader new approaches—for example, looking at the models of Canadian cooperation like the Canadian Foodgrains Bank, which is an excellent example of cooperation. I'm sure there are other types of program delivery overseas that could be explored.

It was also quite noteworthy on our Africa tour how genuinely UNHCR and others invited more dialogue on partnerships. It wasn't merely a pitch for money either.

As one last point before our conclusion, we recognize also that not all SAHs have the capacity to adopt or have an interest in adopting approaches overseas and so on. Therefore, we may need to look at different types of sponsorship agreements that would be appropriate for the capacities of different SAHs.

In summary, what I've been talking about and asking for is, first, making the backlog of private sponsorship cases an immediate priority; secondly, exploring and developing new types of overseas partnerships that recognize and support SAHs that have capacity and interest to explore those; and lastly, considering different sponsorship agreement models, building on the international capacity that some SAHs could bring to this program.

Thanks for your attention.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you.

I now invite the representatives from the United Church of Canada, Sarah Angus and Heather Macdonald, to make a statement, if they wish.

11:15 a.m.

Sarah Angus Member, Justice, Peace and Creation Advisory Committee, United Church of Canada

We come here today believing in the potential of this humanitarian admissions program, the private refugee sponsorship. We believe in its ability to engage civil society.

Resettlement affords a durable solution to refugees. Private sponsorship in particular facilitates newcomers' integration into Canada and the necessary adaptation of the host community.

11:15 a.m.

Heather Macdonald Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

But we are deeply troubled by the backlog and the processing time, and we feel the program is at the point of collapse. It needs an overhaul and systemic change, far more than what is being addressed at this moment, and there is a deflection of all problems at the feet of sponsors.

The United Church believes that responding to desperate refugees is our moral imperative. We want refugees in need of protection, or a durable solution, to arrive in Canada. We emphatically would absorb visa-office-referred cases, if only they were made available to us.

As it is, we spend hours assessing congregational submissions so that only “good” applications go forward. The department is asking us to screen even more intensely and to further restrict our numbers—in effect, discouraging private sponsorship.

Submitting applications for refugees with family members in Canada is not wrong. The Geneva Convention definition does not define a refugee as someone with no relatives in the country of resettlement.

We feel that the fixation the government seems to have with our referring cases to this program is much akin to—and I don't know who may have seen the Yes Minister series, when Sir Humphrey Appleby would not let the patients go to the hospital because he wanted it to stay clean and pristine. At times, we feel that is the impression we get about the refugee program: they don't want refugee referrals.

11:15 a.m.

Member, Justice, Peace and Creation Advisory Committee, United Church of Canada

Sarah Angus

Sponsors do not submit refugee sponsorships to keep busy, to give false hope to refugees, or to waste visa officers' time. We want the program to work, and we're deeply frustrated by high refusal rates that come after years of waiting and often changed circumstances in the country of origin.

Sponsorship is one of the few routes to protection. Refugees cannot present themselves to Canadian missions abroad; they must be referred to them by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, by Amnesty International, or by a sponsorship agreement holder. Therefore, sponsorship agreement holders are a vital support to Canada fulfilling its international responsibility to refugees.

Over the last 27 years, sponsors have brought hundreds of thousands of refugees to Canada. We have invested time, energy, and our own funds in helping them integrate into Canada. We offer 24-hour support to these newcomers in our communities of expected resettlement, which span the country and are not just in large urban centres. We also advocate for sponsored refugees and help them access appropriate social services.

For our part, we screen cases and consult with partners, whether churches or agencies, in refugee-producing countries and countries of asylum. We visit refugee camps and we visit urban refugees. Our priority is to protect individuals and provide durable solutions to groups of human beings who are otherwise warehoused and forgotten.

Visits abroad are informative. We encounter some excellent visa officers, but many others view the program and view us with a lot of suspicion. Missions abroad are not well resourced to handle private sponsorship, and it seems that private sponsors must bear the brunt of bringing refugees to the program.

11:20 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

Heather Macdonald

In Canada, we've watched asylum and resettlement being reinterpreted. We're told now that changes like the safe third country agreement, which is a reinterpretation of the Geneva Convention, would allow for enhanced resettlement, yet numbers of government-assisted refugees remain stagnant, and years have been added to the private sponsorship process. Add to this the extended family members, as those of us who are inundated with appeals know, who have no access to Canada.

Asylum and immigration are now limited, protected, so it's no surprise that people with valid protection needs turn to private sponsorship or the provincial nominee programs. Admission policies that deny labour and demographic needs as well as humanitarian responses are short-sighted: family reunification and humanitarian programs are also the source of good immigrants, yet Canada, unlike Australia, has no special additional humanitarian program for people who are in refugee-like situations but have family in Canada.

It's also worth noting that Australia admits the same number of refugees—but in the course of months, not years.

11:20 a.m.

Member, Justice, Peace and Creation Advisory Committee, United Church of Canada

Sarah Angus

Migration will be a major issue in this century. We want and need this program to work better.

The United Church has several recommendations on this issue.

First, invest financial and human resources to reduce processing times and to address the backlog. A humanitarian program that takes three to four years is not humanitarian.

Another suggestion is to make visa-office-referred cases available in a timely fashion. The United Church has sponsors waiting to help today, but sadly, we can't get enough VOR cases or a way of working that meets our needs.

Hoping to model change, the United Church piloted a visa-office-referred project. It worked well, and at its conclusion we committed to taking at least 20 VOR referrals annually. The problem is, there has been no delivery on this by CIC, and we can't work alone.

11:20 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

Heather Macdonald

We ask you to support sponsorship agreement holders in their professional development and to support the ongoing training of our hundreds of sponsors across the country, including support for eligibility training. This has begun with CIC. It needs to be broadened.

Sponsorship agreement holders want to continue to name refugees in need of resettlement, help Canada meet its global responsibility, and bring in additional numbers. However, I personally believe that the latest move--the even more intense screening--is a form of role confusion. I see it as my role to encourage our church to respond to refugees, not discourage them. I am having to say no more than I can ever say yes, and I have no visa-office-referred cases to refer them to.

11:20 a.m.

Member, Justice, Peace and Creation Advisory Committee, United Church of Canada

Sarah Angus

The United Church requests that you regard us as allies, not adversaries. Consider how many private Canadians were, are, or could be involved, and the difference it makes to the tenor and receptivity of the host community, Canada. Sponsorship is hands-on; it's civil engagement that extends to all parts of the country, costs the government nothing, and builds the cosmopolitan democracy of our future. This is how we learn about ourselves and others, and it's how we learn to embrace our differences.

We also urge you to adapt immigration and refugee programs to meet Canadian needs. We need some equivalent of an assisted relative class. There also needs to be room for unskilled labourers, like the ones who built this very country.

11:20 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

Heather Macdonald

And, please, make the private sponsorship program work. We believe that the department and the sponsorship agreement holders share a common desire to make it work, but we ask you, our representatives in Parliament—especially those of you here today—to hold us to it.

The program has domestic integrity; it's got global credibility; it's Canadians acting responsibly to build a better tomorrow. It's intercultural engagement that works.

Thank you for your attention.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you for that very interesting presentation.

I now call upon Carolyn Vanderlip from the Anglican Diocese of Niagara, and Martin Mark Ill from the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Toronto. Welcome.

11:25 a.m.

Martin Mark Ill Coordinator, Refugee Sponsorship, Catholic Crosscultural Services, Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Toronto, Elected Sponsorship Agreement Holders

Hello, everybody. My name is Martin Mark Ill, and this is my colleague, Carolyn Vanderlip.

We are two of the representatives elected by 89 sponsorship agreement holder organizations, or SAHs, from across Canada to represent them on the NGO-Government Committee on Private Sponsorship of Refugees program.

The committee, which also includes representatives from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, was formed to allow for a productive exchange of ideas to improve the program's operation, to enhance communication and coordination, and to identify and recommend solutions.

The private sponsorship program is an amazing demonstration of sincere generosity and goodwill from a wide diversity of organizations: faith groups, ethno-specific organizations, development organizations, and human rights organizations right across Canada.

We resettle refugees to both small communities and large cities, and participation in the program is internationally well recognized as a factor in fostering hospitality and acceptance of newcomers among average Canadians, average citizens. It is multiculturalism at its best.

The program enhances Canada's humanitarian commitment toward refugees. Private sponsors in Canada resettle more refugees than the entire programs of many other resettlement countries together. Approximately $44 million is spent annually by private sponsors, while the cost to the government is minimal in this program.

But we believe that this wonderful program is in jeopardy and in crisis. A backlog of more than 14,000 or 15,000 people has resulted in processing times of three, four, or five years, or even longer. This is not effective protection for refugees who need a solution now.

Sponsoring groups are becoming extremely discouraged and can easily use their time and resources elsewhere for one of the many other worthy causes demanding their attention. Still, there is capacity and enthusiasm in the sponsoring community to do even more. The U.S. and the UNHCR have approached Canada to take more Iraqi and Palestinian refugees, and the government is looking to private sponsors for help.

Group processing will continue this year. We want to help, just as we have by responding to emergency requests and special programs such as those for Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Somalia, and the Karen, but many of us already have our resources, both financial and human, committed to cases in the backlog. We don't know when, or even if, they will arrive, and if we overcommit ourselves, we risk a default in our sponsorship agreement.

Last year CIC asked sponsors to limit their undertakings to fewer than 4,000 persons per year for the next three years to allow them to clear the backlog. CIC committed to processing 6,000 or 7,000 persons, no different from previous years.

You know, asking humanitarian organizations to cut back on the number of people they are helping is an extremely difficult request, but for the future of the program, sponsors limited their submissions to even fewer than what was asked; CIC made final decisions on even more than they committed to. This should result in a decrease in the inventory.

11:25 a.m.

Carolyn Vanderlip Coordinator, Refugee Sponsorship, Anglican Diocese of Niagara, Elected Sponsorship Agreement Holders

But sponsors will not continue to limit their submissions severely without seeing a stronger commitment from our government and more progress.

When we met with Minister Solberg, we requested that CIC commit to processing 9,000 persons per year. Otherwise, even after last year's progress, it will take not three but another ten years to clear the backlog.

We also recommended that the target range of 3,000 to 4,000 persons be increased to allow for more landings. The upper range was subsequently increased to 4,500.

But in recent years, CIC has had difficulty meeting the lower end of the range. Without more resources, increasing the upper end will make no difference. The department says that the program's high refusal rates are because sponsoring groups are not submitting the right cases and are using the program as a back door for people who are not refugees but who have relatives in Canada and no other way to be reunited with their families.

Although CIC has the authority to suspend or revoke the agreement of any sponsorship agreement holder who's not following the terms of their sponsorship agreement, they have taken no action against any SAH for knowingly or deliberately submitting cases that do not meet refugee criteria.

Micheline Aucoin, the director general, stated in a letter to SAHs that,

Family reunification is a legitimate use of the PSR program, providing the applicants overseas are refugees first and whose only durable solution is resettlement to Canada.

We wholeheartedly agree. Why would sponsoring groups choose to submit cases that would be refused, resulting in increased refusal rates, larger backlogs, and, worst of all, giving false hope to desperate people? Sponsorship agreement holders assure us that the need for protection is always the main criterion in selecting cases.

Janet Siddall told you that sponsors freely admit that they are responding to people in their community who are asking for help bringing their family members from abroad. As long as newcomers have brothers and sisters, parents, uncles, aunts, and cousins left behind in refugee situations, sponsors will be approached to help bring their relatives to safety.

The UNHCR recognizes the importance of family resettlement. Their selection criteria for the Iraqi refugees they will be referring for resettlement will include refugees with family members in the resettlement country.

Family separation in refugee resettlement is inevitable. As you know, private sponsors recently sponsored many government-referred cases of Karen refugees from Burma who have spent years in refugee camps. Great care was taken during the selection process to prevent family separation. Yet private sponsors are being approached to bring family members from other camps. These family members are also refugees, and sponsoring them into Canada provides them with protection.

This is often referred to as the echo effect. The beauty of our Canadian private sponsorship program is that it can respond to requests to sponsor both refugees referred by visa offices and refugees identified through organizational contacts overseas, human rights organizations, or family members already in Canada.

We don't claim that sponsors have always done a perfect job of screening, which is something that even the most highly trained visa officer can't claim. But many sponsors have participated in eligibility training provided by CIC. There's a better flow of information from CIC, giving them better screening tools and information about eligibility, country information, and changing country conditions, etc. Frankly, there is also a much greater awareness of the need to screen.

But cases in the pipeline were submitted before sponsors had these tools. The program is haunted by the past, causing negative perceptions within CIC and overseas visa posts. We want to move the program forward. Focusing on the past will not produce positive outcomes for anyone, whether sponsor, refugee, or government.

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you.

Those were very interesting presentations. Thank you very much.

We'll now go to questioners and people who want to make comments on our committee.

We start our seven-minute round with Mr. Karygiannis.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Good morning, and thank you for coming to the committee. Indeed your work is of interest.

One of the things that got my attention was the United Church saying, with Sir Humphrey Appleby in Yes Minister, that if you build hospitals, people will come. Also you were saying that if we have a refugee system that works, certainly people will apply to it.

I'm wondering if you would comment on this. Also you said that some of the visa offices were excellent, but some view you as adversaries. Could you please let us know which visa posts saw you as adversaries, if you remember? This is very important for the record, as you've stated that some of them have...and some of your recollection of what happened at those visits.

I also understand that some of you met with the minister on October 1 and put forward some recommendations. Am I correct? Could you please elaborate on that? Or if you didn't, what would you like to see done?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Anyone who wishes to make a comment on that may do so.

11:30 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

Heather Macdonald

I would be willing to name the one particular post that I found was excellent when I was last there; it was Kenya, about a year and a bit ago—very helpful, very receptive. I was bringing a delegation of young leaders from our church, and they were shown the program. It was explained to them.

I was in Cairo in the past, where the treatment was quite different, and I'll let my other colleagues say what they've experienced at some of the posts they visited.

Certainly the perception seems to be that somehow we are doing things wrong. Even before a visa officer is put in place, they go with the attitude, “Well, the private sponsorship program is the lowest priority and they really don't know what they're doing”, so they start looking for the wrongs in it. When you look for wrong, that's what you see; you don't see the right. So that's really what I think we're encountering.

Perhaps Ed and then Carolyn and Mark—

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mrs. Macdonald, was it only Cairo, or was there another post where you encountered difficulties—before Ed and your colleagues—?

11:35 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I don't think you should be afraid to name the posts.

11:35 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

Heather Macdonald

Cairo was not a pleasant experience. A couple of years ago, Kenya was not a pleasant experience, but more recently it was. I was impressed by the potential of some of those visa officers; I was really heartened. Colombia I also found helpful, but—

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Let me name some posts and maybe you can nod your head.

Islamabad.

11:35 a.m.

Program Coordinator, Refugee and Migration, Justice and Global Ecumenical Relations, United Church of Canada

Heather Macdonald

I have not been to Islamabad.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Damascus, Sri Lanka.