Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 15th, 2007

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may, it's very simple and doesn't require rocket science for us to understand this. Either every member of this committee supports the work that we have done up to date and wants us to continue, or they don't. And if they don't, then let's have a recorded vote, and put your name out there, so people out there—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm going to—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Excuse me, Mr.—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Since unanimous consent is not required on this, I'm going to call for the vote.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

A recorded vote, Mr. Chair.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

A point of clarification, Mr. Chair, and perhaps the clerk can deal with it. Part of the motion deals with two separate things. It deals with bringing forward the routine motions from last time, which is one issue. Perhaps we should deal with that or not; we could argue that. The second motion deals with the second subject area of bringing--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Proposals for routine motions.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

No, bringing forward the business from the last session. They're two things, because routine proceedings are different.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No, I think the motion that Mr. Karygiannis put on the floor was to bring forward the motions we were dealing with at prorogation, which were the ones that I read out here, and that we would continue with those various studies.

Am I correct in saying that?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said, it does not take rocket science. We had routine proceedings, and unless there are some big reasons why we need to change any of those routine proceedings--we can give notice and deal with this matter on Tuesday--the agenda that we had is for us to continue on that agenda and the steering committee to come up with a proposed travel plan, as we had set. Anything beyond that, sir, is sending a clear signal to the people with whom we are working, to the people who've come and want to be witnesses to this committee, that those individuals who are not supporting this motion are certainly not supporting the work that we have done to date.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Under the conditions of Mr. Karygiannis' motion, he starts by saying that we're going to adopt, for today, the routine proceedings that were in place before. That's what he said, that we're going to go today with the routine proceedings, speaking order, etc., that we had previously.

If we follow that logic, previously we had a notice of motion requirement of 48 hours. So if we assume that is what Mr. Karygiannis is saying, that we're going to keep the rules in place exactly as they were before, then in effect his second motion to bring back all the different matters before the House would require a 48-hour notice period, which we haven't received. The committee has not received that.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Let me be more specific, if I may, Chair.

That we adopt the agenda that we had and the steering committee comes up with the plan for us to travel. And as far as routine proceedings are concerned, if there are any changes that we need to make, people can give us notice and we'll discuss them on Tuesday.

I couldn't be more clear, sir. Clear as a bell. We adopt the agenda, and anybody who does not want to give that signal out to the people who are listening to us, be it over the Internet or over the radio or watching the proceedings of this committee, it certainly does not inspire them about the work that we're doing.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I'll respond to what Mr. Karygiannis said.

With due respect, sir, we have a number of new members to this committee. I'm a relatively new member to this committee, but we have brand-new members to this committee who really can't sit here today and make informed decisions to continue to study issues that were brought forth in the first session of the 39th Parliament, make informed decisions when they've sat in the chair for the very first time in what was to be a very simple meeting and elect a chair and a vice-chair and a second vice-chair.

We have brand-new members to this committee. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can speak for some of the members, I think, at this committee. They must be saying “I don't know what I'm signing up for here if I agree to study absolutely everything that was brought up in the last Parliament.” I think I could say it of Ms. Chow and Mr. Carrier. They're brand-new members of the committee. Even your colleagues, Mr.--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

No, it's not the same. With all due respect, when somebody's a parliamentarian, gets elected, and is going to go to a committee, it's up to him or her, as well as their whip, to examine what was done and make themselves familiar before coming in here. So I think due diligence was done by everybody. And yourself, sir, you were here last time and you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

Please address the chair. It keeps it a whole lot more simple.

Andrew.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, put the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm waiting on the clerk to get some advice on this, because I'm certainly at a loss myself to know what is the proper way to proceed. I'm depending on the clerk here to give us some advice on this.

Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I think the way we should proceed is to adopt the procedures from the last time the committee was together--that doesn't take any particular reading on the matter--with the full understanding that operational procedures can be changed by the committee at any time. Therefore, we'll have operating procedures to go by, so we're not arguing that point. Therefore, that should be the first item of business.

Then I would suggest that from that we have a steering committee. That steering committee can then meet and go through some of this information, and it goes to all the new members as well. And I would suggest that you, as the chair, convene that steering committee as quickly as possible, hopefully maybe Monday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Quite frankly, I don't see any problem with this at all, because we did these reports last time around and are in the middle of most of them. It was my understanding, rightly or wrongly, that we would probably pick up some if not all of these and continue, because we're right in the middle of all of them already, such as on the loss of Canadian citizenship.

I fail to see the controversy surrounding this, unless it's argument for the sake of argument. It seems to me we should be able to arrive at a conclusion at some kind of midway point on this, given the fact that we were all involved in these various studies and that we were in the middle of most of them and haven't had the chance to actually sit down and put to paper what should have been put to paper in the last Parliament, had it not been prorogued.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, may I withdraw part of my motion to make it clearer, then?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I think we'll just wait on the clerk for a moment, and I'll go to Mr. Komarnicki to see whether we can get some resolution to this without getting into too much more debate on the thing.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The clerk can certainly indicate whether we can get into routine motions or not today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It might be a good idea to wait on routine motions until Tuesday when we come back. But this particular....

Anyway, go ahead, Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The other point is that there has to be some law or some regulation that says you can't tie two motions together into one motion. One is a routine motion, and it should be dealt with.