Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 6th, 2008

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

But we know the actual numbers from the department— first and second generation born abroad. They have the numbers. Mr. Komarnicki said that they're in somebody's desk, waiting to be signed off. Don't you want to see those numbers?

[Don Chapman]

It would be nice to see them, but here's the problem. I have to go back to my airline pilot days. We're below the peaks of the mountains and we're aiming at the mountain and we're going to hit it in 45 seconds, so we had better either add power and climb out of there or we're going to have a crash site.

The way I view this one is that we've already studied it, over and over and over. Whether the numbers are 1,000 or 50,000, it's time to pass this bill, because if we don't we're all going to be back in legal limbo-land.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

However, Mr. Chapman, in order to go over those mountains, one of the things that you must have is extra fuel. Mr. Komarnicki has it—he can bring us the numbers very easily.

[Don Chapman]

But no matter what the numbers are, whether they're 10,000 or 100,000, it's time to pass this bill.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

But do you agree, sir, that if the numbers are a million Canadians who are first generation born abroad, this might put the issue in a different perspective?

[Don Chapman]

I happen to know that the total number of lost Canadians is about a quarter of a million people, so I doubt if we're talking a million people.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

No, I'm talking about born abroad, first generation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Janzen, and then I'll go to Mr. Batters.

[William Janzen]

Among the people I work with, approximately 1,000 turn 28 every year. They face confusion. Those 1,000 people are reason enough for me to support this bill. They call for help. Trying to sort out their situations is plenty enough reason, but I don't know all the other numbers.

[Melynda Jarratt]

From my perspective, the children are getting to be 65 and 66. The time is ticking. As I said in my second performance before the committee a couple of years back, the royal “you know what” is going to hit the fan. Well, it has started to hit the fan. Quite frankly, we can continue this for the next 20 years. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? It could go on forever and ever.

With all due respect, Jim, I know how passionate you feel about this, but I have to say that at this point, as Don said, we are heading for the mountain. We're going to crash and burn. Now is the time to fish or cut bait. I feel that we can deal with the issue of the second generation born abroad at a later date.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Five minutes: split between Mr. Batters and Mr. Khan.

Mr. Khan.

[Wajid Khan, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'd just like to make a brief comment and then my colleague Mr. Batters will take over.

We've had discussions on this bill. We've had expert witnesses. They've given us a factual, passionate presentation. We all agree with what they're saying. I do not understand why we have to play political ping-pong with issues that are so important. I think it's time to move on. It's time to pass this without amendments. Any further issues can be addressed down the road.

That's all I have to say, Mr. Chair. On to Mr. Batters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Khan. Very good points.

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Kahn.

This may be the last time I speak on this issue. Let me say to all members present and to the ladies and gentlemen from the media that this is an opportunity, a rare opportunity, for all of us parliamentarians to be heroes. This is not going to be a Conservative government win. It is not something that's driven by the NDP, the Bloc Québécois, or the Liberals. This is a unanimous report. We can all be heroes to these three people and all the others who are affected by this.

I seize upon Ms. Jarratt's passion. She said—I don't know if this is on the record—that she would stand on her head in the corner and spit nickels if she thought she could get this bill through. That's how badly she wants this bill to pass. I ask the members to take this up at the end, specifically with Mr. Karygiannis, and urge him to be a hero. He can be a hero to his constituents and—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I don't think that is a point of order, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

It is a point of order, Mr. Chair, and if you want, I would ask you to consult with the Speaker. I don't think this is an appropriate question. If you, sir, do not think so, then I would ask you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Could you repeat the question again, Mr. Batters? It went over my head.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

A lot of things go over your head.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Sure.

I'm going to make a statement, and I'm going to ask if you agree with me, that all the Liberal members opposite and all the members of this committee would be heroes if we were to put all the political grandstanding behind us, take a bill that's based on the unanimous report of this committee, and rush it through the House of Commons and over to the Senate, and pass it. All of us around this table would be heroes to pass this bill exactly as is, regardless of the figures that Mr. Karygiannis is asking for, whether it is 50, 400, a quarter of a million, or one million people. I don't have a clue what these figures might be.

But you people have led on this issue from the very beginning. You like this bill as it is. You're basically begging us. You're telling us you'll stand on your head in the corner and spit nickels to have it passed.

Let's all be heroes. Would you agree that it's time for us to put all this political bickering behind us, time for nobody to grandstand? This is not grandstanding. This is a chance for all of us to be heroes. Would you like to see that at the end of the day?

[Melynda Jarratt]

Yes, I would. Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order.

You have one minute and five seconds left.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would ask you to check the blues before the next committee meeting, so it doesn't go over your head, for the original question that was--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair--