Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 25th, 2008

[Robert MacDougall]

It's very hard without knowing all the details and what the actual person said when they arrived, but they would be turned around.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

In general, this person was using a fraudulent passport. So right now you're saying they'd be turned around and sent back on the next plane?

[Robert MacDougall]

Unless they mentioned they wanted to apply for refugee status or other measures kicked in.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Wouldn't they have to come out with that in the beginning, though? They would say, “Yes, I'm here and I'm a refugee for this reason or this reason and I fear persecution.” If they get caught with a fraudulent passport, my sense would be that you'd just turn them around and put them on the next plane out of Canada.

[Robert MacDougall]

My expert in the area who's been out there doing that job has advised me they're entitled to due process, so we'd have to respect that due process.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Sorry, they're entitled to due process?

[Robert MacDougall]

That's right, so whatever they present to us we have to follow.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

They get off a plane and they have fraudulent papers and they're not who they say they are. What possible due process could these individuals be afforded? You have a backload of people in this country who are waiting and they're playing by the rules and they can't wait to get into the greatest country in the world, yet you have individuals who come under false passports and they're given some kind of due process. Does this due process include a temporary work permit?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You may give a very brief response, and then I'm going to Ms. Ratansi.

We're interested in the information if you have it, Mr. MacDougall, and if not, you can get back to us on it.

[Robert MacDougall]

Apparently refugee claimants coming into the country quite often arrive on fraudulent documents, and we have to follow the process that applies for refugee claimants. They're quite often using fraudulent documents in order to get here.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I think that's sick. I think that's horrible that we have that policy and I think it should be revisited.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I sympathize with the problem because I've had many like it and I wanted to see a resolution.

Ms. Ratansi.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here. I have three quick questions, but they may be long in answers. But don't take too long because I want to share my time with my colleague here.

You talked about the increase in temporary foreign workers, 100% between 2000 and 2006, and that Alberta will have a 200% increase. What mechanisms are there in place to track these temporary foreign workers?

Then I have another question, which boggles my mind. There are planeloads of Mexicans or foreign workers being brought into the oil sands and they don't meet any category of temporary foreign worker. They are brought in, they work, and they're brought out. They seem to bypass any immigration system or a border security system. What checks and balances do you have? The look on your face is saying, “My God, what is happening!” But that's what we have been instructed.

When you talk about border security, when you talk about three agencies working together, I want to ensure that there is security in the system. I want to ensure that there is no person coming in to create problems for me. But these things are happening. What sanctions do we have against businesses? I think the question that was asked by my colleague here was, “Do you have the resources necessary to monitor those things?”

The last question is on undocumented workers. They come from different areas, be they failed refugee claimants or trafficked persons, and I'm very cognizant as the chair of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women that trafficked persons are very vulnerable. How do you track them? How do you find them? Do you wish to regulate the industry, and if you do, what are some of the benchmarks and best practices that you have observed? The U.S. had amnesty and Spain had amnesty, and I watched a program on Italy. I just want to throw this in the loop.

[Les Linklater]

In terms of systematic tracking of temporary foreign workers once they're in Canada, there is no one single mechanism that is in place to be able to track the movements of temporary foreign workers or what may happen to them. In fact, that's why we've put forward these promotional brochures for applicants to be aware of how they can help themselves, by contacting the relevant provincial authorities if they run into a difficulty.

With regard to Mexicans, I'm not aware of people coming in without proper documentation. As part of the screening process, Mexican workers don't require a visa to enter Canada, but if they intend to work, they do require a work permit, and if they intend to be here for more than six months, they need to do a medical examination.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

But if I were an employer and I did bring in planeloads, and I have sufficient money to bring in planeloads, what checks and balances do you have?

[Les Linklater]

First and foremost, you would have to go to HRSDC to make the case that you couldn't find Canadians to do that work, and if HRSDC agreed, they would issue a labour market opinion, which would then be transferred to us at CIC, and we would then process applications for work permits.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

That's being bypassed, so I'm thinking of checks and balances in the system that we don't have.

The last one was on the undocumented--

[Les Linklater]

On the undocumented workers, again by improving the legal channels and making them more accessible for employers, we feel that we will limit the draw for people to remain in Canada illegally.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

What about the trafficked women?

[Les Linklater]

As you're probably well aware, we have extended the duration of the temporary resident permit that is available to victims of trafficking. That's now at 180 days. That allows the trafficked victim to obtain a work permit free of charge, and it also provides them with medical coverage under CIC's interim federal health program, which would include trauma counselling as appropriate.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Do I have time to give?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have a minute.

Ms. Kadis, go ahead.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Just along the lines of the live-in caregiver program and in the view of the marked reference by Mr. Bevilacqua regarding the aging population, the increased need, obviously, not only for taking care of children but also seniors, and what ways we can improve this program in view of the fact that often, if someone does have to leave an employer, it's a very difficult process, should we not perhaps have a pool of people here as opposed to it being only employer driven? What are your thoughts on that?

[Les Linklater]

We have introduced some additional flexibilities into the live-in caregiver program. They're now issued with labour market opinions that are valid for 39 months. So that would allow them to enter Canada, complete their work assignment, and apply for permanent residence while remaining in status, without having to apply for a new work permit every year, which used to be the case.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

But there is still that difficulty outstanding that if it doesn't work out with that particular employer who has brought them over, in terms of going to another employer, often it takes a long time for them to get a work permit and difficulties are encountered.