Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 10th, 2008

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What if I were to tell you that in GTEC your enforcement time is anywhere between...less than a year on spousal applications?

[Susan Kramer]

Just for our pre-removal risk assessment alone, it takes a minimum of eight months. In GTEC, actually the processing times are somewhat higher.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

How long does PRA take?

[Susan Kramer]

PRA is the responsibility of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. Our experience is that it takes about eight months.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

For a PRA application.

[Susan Kramer]

For a PRA decision to be processed.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Then with the stuff I'm getting in Toronto, what you're telling me...either I'm not reading the faxes that I'm getting back from your offices right or I'm stupid. This is what you're telling me. And stupid I'm not, because I've been in this place for 20 years, much more than some people here combined.

What I'm getting from you in PRA is a month to two months. What I'm getting on GTEC is that from the time it goes in until the time you remove him, it's six months, a year tops. So either your offices in Toronto are not giving you the right information or I'm not reading the stuff right. For someone who's been here 20 years, six consecutive terms with whopping majorities, I don't think I'm stupid.

So please, I'm going to put the question again. From the time it enters GTEC until the time you kick him out, is it three years or is it one year? What is it?

[Susan Kramer]

It takes two to three years to remove a failed refugee claimant, and it takes less than one year to remove a high-priority person.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So a spousal application with two kids should take three years.

[Susan Kramer]

Well, unless the person is a high-priority removal.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

It's no priority removal.

[Susan Kramer]

Then you should expect it to take between two to three years.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If I were to tell you that this application went in there in October, and she's to be removed at the end of the month, March 30...with what you're telling me, your figures don't make any sense or don't match.

[Susan Kramer]

I can't talk about specific—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I will e-mail it to you, and then I want you to come back to this committee and tell me what it is, because what you're telling me is certainly making me want to pull my hair out. You're telling me it's three years from the time it goes to GTEC until the time they get out, you're telling me it's eight months for PRA, and I'm telling you that's not the right case. I'm telling you that what we're hearing on the ground is certainly a different case. So either you don't have your facts and figures or you're misleading us.

[Susan Kramer]

There are many factors that could have an impact on the time it takes to remove someone, but in general it takes two to three years for a non-high-priority person and less than one year for a high-priority case.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Spousal applications are not usually high priority, are they? By the fact that the majority of them, 90% of them, get to come back, they're not high priority, are they?

[Susan Kramer]

It depends on why the removal order was issued.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Stewart.

[Rick Stewart]

With all due respect, sir, I think there's a specific case that you have in mind.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I have many specific cases, Mr. Stewart.

[Rick Stewart]

If you could send the case to our department, we will look into the specifics of the case. We're clearly not in a position to sit here today and talk about the specifics of that case.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

No, it's not a specific case. I have many cases of spouses, Canadian children, pregnant wives, and you went ahead and removed them. By the time it went to GTEC, by the time the PRA was done, the total was six months.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Make a brief comment, if you have one, Mr. Stewart.

[Rick Stewart]

If an application under this class of spousal reunification had not already been submitted at the point at which they were notified of removal, they're not subject to the delay in removal. An application needs to be in before the enforcement action begins.