Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 10th, 2008

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

--after this committee and the chair have determined that the evidence was relevant enough for it to be asked and to be provided.

I think that's inappropriate. If you think that's appropriate, I totally disagree with that, because that's the problem with having reports with half the facts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Exactly. I agree totally and completely, but the chair--

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

After the chair has made a ruling, to overrule a chair on that point without a basis for it really puts the whole integrity of this committee into question.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It's family values.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It's not family values; it's a question of democracy and how this committee proceeds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I will adjourn this meeting if you don't come to order, please.

I think what you're saying is very valid, Mr. Komarnicki. However, the chair's decision--

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'd ask the Bloc member to withdraw that amendment and wait until the evidence is in, if he wants to do it properly, and vote down the other amendment if it's going to go ahead today before the evidence is called. In this democracy and this country, we don't proceed that way.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

If I can't bring this committee to order in the next minute or so, I'm going to adjourn the meeting, and then no one wins.

Would you please allow me to take this in order?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'm next on the list.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You're next on the list after.... I've seen Mr. St-Cyr's hand again. I can't help but feel that he has a response to Mr. Komarnicki, and I'll allow that.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay. First of all, I am happy to see that Mr. Komarnicki acknowledges how important the Bloc Québécois is. I am very flattered that he has pointed out we are very responsible and that he is disappointed in this case.

I want to talk about the figures we were given, or actually, about the figures we were not given. It should not come as a surprise that we would ask for figures. The governing party controls its officials, the representatives of the government and its departments. It had all the tools it needed to ensure that we had complete information today. We are not going to wait to have all the information in hand before we make decisions, especially since I do not see how it would change anything.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, that's enough on that.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

No, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm giving you 30 seconds; clew it up. I have other people who need to speak and I've heard all this already today. Please clew it up.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I will take the 30 seconds. I do not usually waste time, unlike some of my other colleagues around this table.

Furthermore, the figures do not seem completely necessary. There are two possibilities: either it is an endemic problem and we must vote now, or it is a minor problem that occurs rarely, in which case our adopting this resolution today would not cause any problems.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The last speaker on the list was Mr. Karygiannis.

Please be brief, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, regarding the numbers, it doesn't matter if they're 10% and it doesn't matter if they're 20%. The numbers don't matter. What matters is that we have individuals who have sponsored spouses, and those people are deported. This is what is at issue.

Should Mr. Komarnicki want us to have a full--if you want to call it that--hearing on this, then do you know what? If he's prepared to move that we stop immediately all deportation until this committee has hearings and reports, that's fine. I don't think Mr. Komarnicki wants to entertain this. If that's the case, and Mr. Komarnicki agrees, we can adopt this very easily: we will stop deportations, we will have hearings, and this committee will report. We will stop deportations until we finalize the hearings and report to the House.

I think there is a spirit on this side that we go this way. I'm not sure if the Conservatives want to go that way. If they do--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Before we go to the amendment, do you have a final comment, Mr. Komarnicki? That's a final comment.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I would suggest to this committee that before a chair's ruling is overruled, there needs to be some logical basis to it, not just a whim. In this case we started a hearing and we didn't complete it. The chair ruled that it was not appropriate. The clerk ruled it was inappropriate. The material we have for precedent is that Parliament says it's inappropriate. How can you overrule the chair in good conscience when there is no valid basis to it?

I'd ask you to withdraw that.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Put the question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We've heard all the arguments. The question is on the amendment.

Mr. Clerk, read the amendment, please.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Andrew Chaplin]

Concerning the motion in French:

Mr. St-Cyr proposed that the motion be amended by inserting in the second line “première” between “une” and “demande”.

And in English, that the motion be amended by substituting in the second line, for “filed an in-Canada spousal”, the words “filed their first in-Canada spousal”.

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The question is on the motion as amended.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

No, there is another amendment that I raised before to allow them a work permit. That was filed before, and it was raised before, that these people be allowed a work permit.