Evidence of meeting #20 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alex Istifo  President, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.
Helen Smith-McIntyre  Chair, Refugee Coalition, Chair, Amnesty International, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.
Eric Johansen  Director, Saskatchewan Immigrant Nominee Program, Immigration Branch, Advanced Education, Employment and Labour, Government of Saskatchewan
John Hopkins  As an Individual
Daniel Hirschkorn  Director, Saskatoon Immigration and Employment Consulting Services Inc.
Chris Thomas  TDL Group (Tim Hortons)
Chelsea Jukes  Consultant, Human Resources, Westcan Bulk Transport Ltd.
Sandra Cornford  As an Individual

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

I would like to invite our committee members to come to the table.

I want to welcome our witnesses here today as we continue our cross-country tour. We started in Vancouver, as you're aware, a couple of days ago, and we went to Edmonton. Now we're here in Moose Jaw, and of course we head for Winnipeg this afternoon.

As you're aware, we're the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, and we've been mandated to have hearings on three matters: temporary and undocumented workers, immigration consultants, and the Iraqi refugee problem. We're going to meet in almost all provinces, and at the end of it all, of course, our capable officials, along with us, will do a report and make recommendations to government on the things we have heard and the problems that have been enunciated to us.

We started out in Vancouver, and of course in Edmonton as well, with a full slate of people. We have about twelve people on our committee, but we have a problem as well in that the House of Commons is sitting. Two of our Liberal members, Mr. Telegdi and Mr. Karygiannis, have bills on in the House of Commons, so for them it was a matter of having to fly back and forth between Ottawa and here. And their bills are on today, so these two gentlemen from the Liberal Party had to return to the House of Commons and do what had to be done there. But we have a couple more people who are going to come.

Maybe starting with Colleen, members can introduce themselves to the people here.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

My name is Colleen Beaumier. I'm from Brampton, Ontario, and I'm a Liberal.

9:10 a.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

My name is Thierry St-Cyr, and I am the member for the riding of Jeanne-Le Ber, in Montreal.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Mr. Carrier told me just before we came to make sure to tell the witnesses to get their translation devices, which was a good idea, and which I neglected to do, of course.

So I'm sorry about that, Mr. Carrier.

Witnesses, please be sure to have your translation devices at hand.

9:10 a.m.

Bloc

Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC

Good morning. My name is Robert Carrier. I am the Bloc Québécois member for the Laval area, north of Montreal, in Quebec.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Good morning. I'm Ed Komarnicki, member of Parliament, and I represent Souris--Moose Mountain, just east of Moose Jaw.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Good morning. I'm Nina Grewal. I represent Fleetwood-Port Kells, and I'm from B.C.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Good. We'll begin now, and you have the first hour. Our witnesses are Mr. Alex Istifo, president, St. Maratken Community Society, and Helen Smith-McIntyre, chair of the refugee coalition and chair of Amnesty International.

Welcome. We generally begin with some opening comments, so either one of you can start. We generally allow around seven minutes for opening comments, and then we'll have our committee members interact and ask a few questions, if they have any.

Please go ahead.

9:10 a.m.

Alex Istifo President, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

I'll start.

I would like to thank you for inviting us here this morning. I will introduce myself as Alex Istifo from St. Maratken Society in Saskatoon. I immigrated to Canada in 1983. I'm from Iraq, and I've worked with refugees for over 20 years, in private sponsorships and settlements and training refugees around Saskatoon. I work with open-door societies lots of times, and I've translated. I even translated at an embassy in Turkey for an interview one time. So I've been around the world a few times, around refugees. I've worked with refugees almost since I've been in Canada.

I'm one of the successful refugees in Canada. I brought all my family to Saskatoon. In 1990 my parents flew to Turkey, and I brought them to Canada as well, and right now my family employs about 200 to 250 people in Saskatoon.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Very good.

9:10 a.m.

President, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Alex Istifo

I own two restaurants and I have over 30 people working for me right now. So I'm one of the lucky ones, I'd say, because not many refugees can become successful in a lot of places around Canada, especially in Saskatchewan. But I have always fought for more refugees to come to Saskatchewan because the province of Saskatchewan needed more people. Besides, I have a restaurant in Kindersley, Saskatchewan, and we always struggle to find people to work, so we always wonder why we don't have more people in this province.

Right now, the situation of Iraq is really out of hand. There are over two million refugees out of Iraq right now between Syria, Turkey, and Jordan. We have the facts, we have the numbers. We're working with a lot of private sponsorships, and with a lot of churches as well.

What I'm asking is this. I would like the committee to consider a special program for Iraqi refugees. They are out of Iraq with no homes.

Again, I'd like to thank you for inviting us here to represent Iraqi refugees who are out of Iraq right now, and especially Christians—they are really a minority of the people in Iraq.

Thank you.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you. We'll have a chance a little later, when Ms. Smith-McIntyre is finished, to have a chat with you about that.

Ms. Smith-McIntyre.

9:15 a.m.

Helen Smith-McIntyre Chair, Refugee Coalition, Chair, Amnesty International, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Good morning, and I thank you as well for allowing us to be here.

I want to give you a little picture of what life is like for us in Saskatoon. I work very closely with the Iraqi Christian community. We are between 800 and 1,000 people now, and almost all of those folks have come either as refugees or as family class.

In these last couple of years, we have been inundated by phone calls from family members of those who are in Saskatoon, neighbours of those who are in Saskatoon or former neighbours, people calling from Syria, Jordan, and Turkey, people calling from Windsor, from Toronto. They know we do sponsorships, successful sponsorships, and they're pleading with us to help them get to a place where they can live in safety and peace and begin to build a new life. So we are under tremendous pressure.

Our community, in addition to sponsoring as quickly as we can, is also sending lots and lots of money overseas to support cousins and aunts and uncles and mothers and fathers and grandparents, both in Iraq and in neighbouring countries. I would guess that the amount of money that goes out of Saskatoon in a given year is several hundred thousand dollars. All of the families are feeling extreme pressure and extreme anxiety because the other part of the picture is that our families are also impacted by the people who are abducted and by the people who are killed.

Just this week we had a funeral for a 16-year-old boy who was shot with a gun through his mouth by one of the insurgent groups in Iraq. His uncle and cousins are in one of the refugee families in Saskatoon. The father of that boy is missing.

So a part of our reality is just to really feel the pressure, and we're working as fast as we can to sponsor refugees, to bring refugees, and to help them integrate into the community.

That's a little bit about our current context. Just a few days ago we did a news release. Just to give you a taste of some of the things we have been trying to do in Saskatoon to garner more support for the refugees of Iraq, we chose to do a news release around the time of the abduction and killing of the Archbishop of Mosul. This is the second time in a year that we've come together for prayers and to invite the media on the occasion of the killing of a Christian clergy person.

On that occasion too, after telling the story of the archbishop—which has made it to some of the major media in Canada—about his abduction and his killing and the killing of the people who were with him, we then moved on to talk about what's happening around the fifth anniversary.

On the occasion of the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, three agencies chose to issue new reports. You may or may not be familiar with these reports. The International Committee of the Red Cross published a report highlighting Iraq as one of the most critical situations in the world. Amnesty International published a report called Carnage and Despair, which I think speaks for itself in terms of the title, but it was also saying that Iraq is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. The UNHCR is talking about the number of displaced people, which has not decreased by much, even though we're hearing stories that things are supposed to be safer in Iraq. The UNHCR also talked in York about the increased numbers of asylum seekers.

We have a desperate picture, and I think as Canadians we really need to reach out and help and to do some things more effectively than we have been doing. Some of the suggestions or some of the critique, I guess, is that from our perspective Canada's response to the situation in Iraq is totally inadequate.

The amount of money Canada has given to the United Nations to help care for people in Syria and Jordan is way too little in relation to the problem. The small piece the minister has decided about family reunification is window dressing. As you may know, in November the minister made a new announcement about expediting the reunification of parents and grandparents so people here could sponsor them and bring them to Canada, and it would go faster than the usual four years. That was for parents or grandparents in Syria. We're trying to make that program work for the few people here who have the means by which to do family-class sponsorship. But we have to remember that when we're talking about Iraqis, we're talking about a relatively new refugee community, and people don't have the means yet and are not well enough established yet to have the kind of income needed to do family-class sponsorship. It may work for a few people, but it will work for very few.

I think it's in response to a critique of the work we've done, in that many of the people whom we have brought as refugees are relatives. But to us, I guess, if you're a refugee, you're a refugee, and whether you're a relative or not isn't what matters. Some may see this as a big step in terms of expediting family reunification, but I don't think it's a big step at all. It's a very small step that may help a few people.

We have many, many refugees who've had their interviews in Syria and have been waiting for months. They're also calling and saying they've been told they were accepted, but they have to wait for their security clearance and medical. But nothing's coming and nothing's happening, and months after they've had their interview, people aren't getting here.

So the fact that security clearance by Canadians is taking so long is also a problem. We're continuing to have to support families overseas, and they're not getting to places of safety and places where they could get good medical care and education. They're sitting waiting for Canadians to complete the security clearances.

Some people have made the comparison to Kosovo. In 1999, Canada responded with open arms to people from Kosovo, particularly when Macedonia was overloaded with people crossing the border. It behooves us to know why our response to Iraq is so limited when under other circumstances we have moved so quickly and with great compassion to support people.

I'll stop there.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Okay. We'll go to questioning in a moment.

You feel that financial assistance to Iraq from Canada is not adequate. I notice in some of the notes I have that Canada pledged up to $300 million for humanitarian and reconstruction assistance to Iraq, and $285 million of that has already been committed. One-third of the funds committed were channelled through the International Reconstruction Trust Fund Facility for Iraq, to which Canada had contributed $115 million as of the end of January.

I think UNHCR had recommended we take 500 Iraqi refugees. I don't know if Canada has met its full commitment on that, but I guess it's in the process of being done, because 190 Iraqis sought asylum from within Canada in 2006, followed by 129 in the first six months of 2007.

Anyway, I'll just go to whoever wishes to ask questions.

Ms. Beaumier

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

Yes, there's something I'd like to discuss.

One of the reasons there are so many refugees out of Iraq right now is that they have been invaded by a foreign nation in what I would classify as an illegal war. People have different opinions on whether they should have gone in or not, and obviously you can see where I stand.

However, the Assyrian community is in grave danger, and you'll be creating more and more refugees if the Kurds are given their own country. I'm sure Mr. Istifo is very aware of the situation. There will be an absolute slaughter of Christians in Assyria. I think that's something we have to look at internationally and see if we can stop it before it starts.

You talk about aid not getting there. I think you've been in the NGO business long enough to know that foreign aid never gets.... We never give what we pledge. And this is non-partisan, this is all governments. We never give as much as we pledge. It goes in dribs and drabbles, and usually it doesn't go to organizations that need it. I know that within Iraq right now and within the Assyrian part of Iraq there are NGOs trying to deal with this situation.

One of the problems with talking about taking more refugees from Iraq...and I think we should. If it were up to me, we'd have a federated world. So that's where I stand on that as well. We have to acknowledge that we have created these refugees. No matter what the conditions were under Saddam Hussein, at least you knew who the enemy was. Now in Iraq, every corner you turn, it could be another enemy.

You want us to take more refugees. You want more money going where? And what can we do about trying to ward off almost what I think is becoming the inevitable for the Assyrians--and that would be genocide? And tell me if I'm wrong.

9:25 a.m.

President, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Alex Istifo

No, you're right.

When the money goes inside Iraq it is not going to the refugees, so it's really two different issues. Refugees are out of Iraq. We're not talking about refugees in Iraq, because they're in Iraq. We all know you have to be out of the country to be a refugee.

I don't think the money is going to the refugees in Syria and Turkey. I don't think any refugee is getting any funds out of Iraq.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

Do you have any idea how Canada has been administering its foreign aid?

Helen, would you know where our money is going?

9:25 a.m.

Chair, Refugee Coalition, Chair, Amnesty International, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Helen Smith-McIntyre

Canada has made a commitment to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, and it's the United Nations that's the point organization in Syria and Jordan in terms of not only registering and monitoring the movements of the refugees, but also attempting to build some extra educational facilities, the medical facilities, in order to accommodate the large bulge in the number of people in those countries.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

And is this happening, or is money being siphoned off?

9:25 a.m.

Chair, Refugee Coalition, Chair, Amnesty International, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Helen Smith-McIntyre

Money is going to the United Nations. It always puzzles me a bit when I read the financial statements on the Internet of the United Nations, because they put out appeals. They don't seem to be exorbitant, but countries, including Canada, don't step up to the plate with the amount the United Nations needs in order to carry out the work that they planned.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

Alex, what is it exactly that you want this committee to recommend on Iraqi refugees?

9:25 a.m.

President, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Alex Istifo

I would like to have a special program for refugees of Iraq, out of the Iraq--

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

What do you mean by “a special program”?

9:30 a.m.

President, St. Maratken Community Society Inc.

Alex Istifo

Well, I think Helen mentioned that there's a program for Kosovo. For example, the UNHCR just took 500 people to Canada. We should do more. There are over two million people out of Iraq right now who have no homes. I think we have the capacity to do more. In Canada, it's especially so in the prairie provinces. I mean, there are restaurants closing their doors because they have no workers. McDonald's is closed at lunchtime because they have no people serving, so they just open their window. Why can't we have more people here? They are all workers. They all have young families.

In Lloydminster, you can't find a Tim Hortons open inside anymore. You have to go to the drive-through, because there are no workers. I mean, the capacity's out there.... I think that through the prairie provinces--Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Regina--all of us have trouble finding people to work. I think Canada can do more for those people--not just for Iraqis alone, but for other millions of refugees around the world.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Colleen Beaumier Liberal Brampton West, ON

I've been to Iraq. I love the Iraqis; they're beautiful people.