Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 9th, 2008

[Imran Qayyum]

It's in the chart that we put in the back of your binder. I believe it's $225 for the year. That provides global coverage. Our members are situated not only throughout Canada and the U.S. but overseas, in India and Pakistan, and their actions are also covered. So we had to negotiate a special E and O policy to cover this.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Two hundred dollars strikes me as not being a whole lot. What do you cover in terms of the amounts, if there's a wrong or an injury?

[John Ryan]

The actual errors and omissions insurance is included in your binder. Unfortunately it's only in English, because the provider only gives it to us in English.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

What does it cover?

[John Ryan]

It covers anything that's an error and omission, up to, I think, a total of $1 million. But you have to understand that the reason our fees are so low is that, quite frankly, the insurers view us as low risk, because in our rules of professional conduct we explicitly prohibit consultants from handling third party moneys. Unlike lawyers, who may handle trusts or that kind of thing, our consultants do not handle anything of the sort.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Karygiannis, you have five minutes.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you. That will be ample.

Good morning, and thank you for coming.

I have a couple of questions. First of all, a lot of practitioners you have—and you have the number—seem to be engaging “translators”, and those translators are actually doing a lot of the work for the practitioner. I'm sure you've encountered that. What mechanisms do you have, or what are you planning to have, or what don't you have that you need to have in order to be able to deal with those people?

[John Ryan]

Mr. Karygiannis, thank you for the question.

Under our rules of professional conduct, Mr. Chair, we have a specific requirement that the member is responsible for the actions of an employee and/or an agent. If this translator is acting on a client file, which is the responsibility of the member, the society will hold the member absolutely responsible for any and all actions of agents that this member chooses to bring to the file.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Is there anything else you need--and a short answer will do, because I have a couple more--that you haven't been given by the citizenship and immigration department in order to make you able to administer justice, if you want to call it as such?

[John Ryan]

I think the minister needs to put a penalty provision in IRPA specifically, making it illegal--not just a general provision under section 124, but a specific provision in keeping with recommendation 31 of the minister's advisory committee, of a penalty for unauthorized practice.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Is there such a move in Bill C-50?

[John Ryan]

Not that I am aware of, no.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Have you been consulted by the minister on Bill C-50?

[John Ryan]

Yes, we have.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yesterday the minister made the comment that's it's not a right to come to Canada, it's a privilege. I understand that if you're at the port of entry, that is a privilege. However, I believe that it's a right to apply. However, it's not the minister's right for her to refuse the application, as Bill C-50 is moving to. I see you shaking your head, and I thank you for that.

Yesterday officials of CIC were telling folks, “Well, you can keep reapplying for 50 years. And thank you very much for applying. Every time you apply, you're going to be paying money to consultants, you're going to be paying fees. We don't know if these fees will be returned. There will be a processing fee.” So somebody who really wants to come to Canada could be applying for five or ten years, and that's an injustice to that individual.

[John Ryan]

I think I will only comment on the portion about the injustice, because as a regulator we are involved in the protection of the consumer. On that point, we have publicly taken a position on Bill C-50, only in the protection of the consumer, in terms of the need to reduce the backlog. Simply, people are putting their lives on hold for nine years, and the anguish and the trouble are simply not in the interests of the consumer. Those people being stuck in the backlog in the processing area now, because of those people and 900,000, is not in the interests of the consumer.

So as a regulator, we hope the minister and this committee will find ways to reduce that backlog so we can get back to normal processing and everybody is serviced properly.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Do you think Bill C-50 will get rid of the backlog?

[John Ryan]

I'm not going to go that far. I'm just saying that any effort to reduce the backlog to protect the consumer, the society--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Ryan, you've been an expert. You've worked in this field as a practitioner for years. To your best ability, to your best knowledge, to your guesstimate, will Bill C-50 get rid of the backlog?

[John Ryan]

In my role today, Mr. Karygiannis, I am before you as a regulator, not as an immigration consultant. I am sure other groups today may want to get into Bill C-50 with you, in terms of what you're after. But I can tell you that from a consumer protection review the backlog is simply untenable.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I take your answer as a no.

Let me ask a further one, if I may. We're going to have two streams, one on Bill C-50 and one on the backlog. Unless the minister agrees to allow more people in--more than 250,000 people--the backlog and Bill C-50 will be competing for that number. If you need the best and the brightest--as the minister is saying, they're going to get the first to come--that backlog of 900,000 right now--

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to go to a point of order.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, we do have a lot of leeway on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I know, and I've discouraged points of order during this. But I will take the point of order.