Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 17th, 2008

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

That's the impression I got from you. I would think that's the first step. Quebec's example has been followed by practically every single province in Canada. I've been right across Canada. In British Colombia they have one; in Saskatchewan also. I think it's time. We can talk about this privately at another time. I don't want to take up the time of the committee.

One of the problems is that nobody seems to realize that Newfoundland today is not Newfoundland of 20 years ago. I have seen the changes. I taught at Memorial University—I think it was 20 years ago—and I've seen the change. Not too many people realize that Newfoundland is now a place where immigrants can come to work. Let us talk about this at another time—whose door you should knock on and so on. That's the first comment.

The second comment I want to make is to Mr. Rivera. Unfortunately, I was away when you made your presentation, but I would like you to tell me how you came to ask to be accepted here in Canada on compassionate and humanitarian grounds. There's a reason behind my questions, and I would like the parliamentary secretary to be listening to this.

Mr. Rivera.

[Jose Rivera]

My wife was a personal volunteer, and we helped somebody in our country. We ended up threatened by one of the five illegal organizations down there. We applied for refugee status in Canada and we were denied four times. We applied a fifth time. Some change occurred in the embassy, and they saw our case and accepted us as refugees. We came to Canada in that way.

I would like to complement the questions with regard to the settlements. Most of the dollars that I've spent on other issues can be spent in retraining people. I live in the Newfoundland House. My friend John is one of our neighbours. Some of our Canadian neighbours are sitting at home because they cannot access education. They have to wait two, three, four years in a line-up to go to college.

We have a good number of young adults, people who don't apply for high school because they're too old, and they cannot apply for college because they have no English and so on. So they can't be retrained in these job situations.

We have a number of entrepreneurs who went to Alberta to set up shop. They could have done it in Newfoundland and provided more jobs. This is something we are proposing at the college—a database to help us understand how to go about business and how we can deal with unions, schools, and funding.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you for your comments.

Let me go back a little bit. You're originally from Colombia, I understand?

[Jose Rivera]

Yes, I am.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

When you asked for compassionate and humanitarian grounds for coming into Canada, where were you?

[Jose Rivera]

I was in Colombia.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

You were in Colombia. That's the point I'm trying to make. You were in Colombia when you were allowed to apply on compassionate and humanitarian grounds. When the Canadian government accepted you, you were then able to come to Canada.

[Jose Rivera]

The funny part about it is that I didn't know I applied on humanitarian and compassionate grounds. There was one person inside the Canadian embassy, not an official but a lawyer—

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

That's immaterial to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to move on now.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Can I say just one sentence?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Only one, because I'm thinking about the schedule.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I want to make the point that in the new bill that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has presented to Parliament, Bill C-50, it would not be possible for somebody outside the country to ask to get into the country on compassionate and humanitarian grounds. I just want to make that point.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

That's not correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That's not correct?

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I beg to differ. I've studied that bill, and let me tell you that I beg to differ.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

A difference in opinion between two honourable people.

Mr. Rivera.

[Jose Rivera]

I'm sorry to intervene in this way.

In my Colombian experience, and from several countries, I don't understand how Canada is allowing something that in Colombia we call the monkey, which is including something that doesn't belong to an act, to be in there to be approved. That's a risk. That means Canada is going to third-world country status.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It's Madam Folco's position that what the parliamentary secretary says is wrong, but Bill C-50 is going to be the subject of another hearing, which will begin on April 28. So I'm not going to get into too many arguments between people across the floor from each other here. One says it's right and one says it's wrong. It's a disagreement between two honourable people here.

Monsieur Carrier, you will wrap up?

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I want to focus on the migration of workers from Newfoundland to the western provinces. I spoke about that earlier, but I want to talk about it here because I know that Newfoundland is the province most affected by that migration. Earlier Mr. Rivera addressed the subject by saying that local labour would have to be retained because there is no interest in seeing it leave.

Before being a member of Parliament, I was an engineer—I still am—and I was responsible for construction projects. I'm familiar with labour shortage problems that you can have when you have a project to carry out. Mr. Power mentioned that he is used to seeing labour go from one place to another. I would like him to tell me whether he wouldn't prefer local labour to remain here in order to move his economy forward.

In the same line of thinking, since economic development is disproportionate across the country, people say they're going to work in the west. I'd like to hear your comments on that subject. Do you think our government should have other initiatives to balance labour needs in the country, instead of resorting to immigration or to temporary workers?

I'd like to heard both of you answer.

[Jose Rivera]

I think we already mentioned the idea of retraining and re-educating the labour force we have. We also mentioned the idea of having access to information. I also mentioned the idea of a number of Colombians and Indians coming to this wonderful province and having the chance to develop new organizations, new businesses, but having to go away because they have no information and no access to resources, not because the resources are not there. It's amazing. I can point out about 3,500 different kinds of programs around the country that provide funding for small entrepreneurs to develop, but we cannot access them because we don't know them.

Having the opportunity to stay in a growing economy like this one is a wonderful opportunity for people coming in. I know this wonderful province has something that other provinces don't have, and it's the quietness, the loveliness, and the warmth of the people. And please don't tell anybody, because we don't want millions of people storming our province.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Power, what do you think?

[Michael Power]

Talking about the migration of workers from Newfoundland to western Canada, Newfoundland has a history of people migrating to work all over North America and all over the world. I've been an electrician, a technician, a technologist; I've spent all my life in the electrical and electronic business, and I've been one of the fortunate ones. I've made my living without leaving Newfoundland.

I brought Rick along. He's with the construction local here. There are approximately 1,000 electricians under that local. We have no problem manning any work. We've got workers on the water treatment plant on the south side of St. John's; we just finished a project in Duck Pond, and we had no problem. If our guys were out west working, it's because they can't stay here if there's no work for electricians. They've got to go where the work is, right? That's the reason why they travel, and that traditionally has been that way.

Newfoundland workers go to Boston. They built the airport in Denver, by the way. There was a whole raft of them down there when they built that new airport in Denver. They go everywhere, wherever there's work. But if there's work at home, we have no problem. We put 600 electricians on the Hibernia project when we were building it, and we won't have any problem putting them on the Hebron project or any other project. We've got them to put there. They'll come back home because they're transient workers. They're moving, they've got good jobs, and they're bringing home the money and spending it in Newfoundland. They've got their families in rural Newfoundland.

[Jose Rivera]

There's another source of income now. I'm a business consultant--that's my background in my country--so I'm eager to see new business. More Newfoundlanders are coming back home, and they're bringing their spouses and they're bringing their siblings; they're building houses and they're building complexes. There's a larger need for those new developments, and there's going to be a lot of need for health care and the resources for them. They're going to become volunteers for us, and they're going to work for free, like Donna does.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

One last question.