Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 13th, 2008

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

We are talking about hypotheticals. You have been talking in hypothetical terms throughout your presentation.

[Hassan Yussuff]

We are stating some facts. What we are stating about the temporary foreign workers are facts. We don't make them up.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

No, let me talk. That we have people driving cabs who are qualified for something else is also a fact, is it not?

[Hassan Yussuff]

I would say that's a failure of our own policy, as a government.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

True, and I'm trying to bring you to the point of some success. If we have an engineer coming in, we should line him up with an engineering job. You agreed with me on that. Then I said the system should probably give the spouse and children an open work permit so they could find work. Would you agree with that?

[Hassan Yussuff]

Well, I simply make the point that bringing people as temporary foreign workers does not give them the security—

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'm not talking about temporary foreign workers. I'm talking about providing a way for them to come through our immigration system to become permanent residents, not temporary foreign workers.

[Hassan Yussuff]

Well, I don't know how it would be. They will still have to come on a temporary basis. Their visas are contingent on the fact that if we choose to revoke them, they have to leave.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Well, no, if we had a bill like Bill C-50 that said we will take applications in the engineering field because we have positions for engineers, and if you're an engineer and apply, we will take you.

[Hassan Yussuff]

What happens if the engineering company that the person is coming to decides it no longer needs engineers? What do we do with the engineer then?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I guess you'd have to make that decision whether you would take someone else for which there is a job because there is that principle that if you have a job, that might help you get started within the society.

[Hassan Yussuff]

If we are going to argue hypothetically, I think our point is that most immigrants who have come with their skills to our country have adapted, despite the fact that we made a commitment that they were going to work in their fields. They have learned new skills, and they have actually gained meaningful employment to support themselves and their families in our country.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Let me put it to you in simple terms. If you were to come into Canada with a particular skill and didn't have a job, as opposed to coming into Canada with that same skill and had a job, which way is more likely to be successful?

[Hassan Yussuff]

Well, the person who could have a job, obviously.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

And then, of course, you would want to ensure that the family members could come as well and that they could get jobs as well, if possible. Agreed?

[Hassan Yussuff]

Quite possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Time is up. Thank you.

Mr. Flecker.

[Karl Flecker]

It's very interesting to talk about hypotheticals. It's interesting that I don't see—and probably a number of other people who have presented haven't seen—those hypotheticals you're describing in Bill C-50.

Second, the data that's out there actually shows that successful economic and community integration is not simply based on a job, but is also based on other supports.

Finally, in terms of the mechanics of this program, simply to say some group of people has said it needs these skills doesn't necessarily transfer that the process will say that Mohamed or Fatima is going to be applied with an appropriate NOC code to be plucked out of a 925,000-person lineup to be able to be assessed by whom, for a job we don't know is actually guaranteed. Talk about hypotheticals.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm going to give Mr. Yussuff the last word.

[Hassan Yussuff]

Yes, just very briefly, I want to again thank the committee. I think there were some very thoughtful questions about the process here. I just want to end.... I know that quite often we indulge in partisan bickering about these matters. I just want to make a plea to the committee members, because I know we all have good intentions in terms of what our immigration policy should be.

The fact of the matter is that immigration is not simply a policy we ought to do on a whim. It is of serious consequence to what kind of country we can build and how we integrate people into the economy, how we build our communities, and more importantly, how we succeed as a nation in the future.

I think there's a need for regard. Our sincerity in coming to this committee is to try and influence the committee in terms of the direction of your report. I believe if the government truly wants to engage in a process to talk about how we reform our immigration system, we will be an equal partner to participate in that process to support the government to at least try to achieve the objective we think would be the one that could succeed and make Canada truly a remarkable country, given the fact that we are a country of immigrants.

I think we ought to take this seriously.

Thank you so much.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Before an instruction is issued, there will be consultations. That's something you need to understand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I want to thank everyone for coming today. Thank you, Mr. Flecker and Mr. Yussuff.

The meeting is adjourned.